Persistent sticking shutter curtain on my IIIc

[vdonovan]

Hi Folks,

I've had a IIIc for a few years. Two years ago the shutter started sticking in almost all shutter speeds. I had it CLA'd and it was okay for a while and then started sticking again. I had it CLA'd again by Adolph Gasser here in SF. It came back and was good for 2 rolls and then had the same problem. They took it again (for free) and said they fixed it but now again after three rolls I'm seeing some sticking.

Any advice as to what might be going on? It's driving me crazy.

best regards,
Vince

 

[brachal]

I'd send an email to Youxin Ye and ask him if he thinks it's something he can fix. He's very friendly and easy to deal with; he might have seen a similar problem before.

 

[vdonovan]

Thanks for your help.
Vince

 

[john neal]

Vince,

When you say "sticking", what are the symptoms? Is it both curtains, or only one, etc - can you talk us through winding & shutter release? Any odd noises?

 

[MikeL]

Vince, if you want to try talking with someone local, there's a guy at Pro Camera that I heard also works on Leica and Rollei's (on Wed., I think) and you might try Fred at International Camera Technicians (ICTcamera.com). I haven't gone to either, but a couple friends always send their stuff to them when things go bad.

 

[vdonovan]

Thanks! I'll scan some negatives today and post them so you guys can see what I'm talking about.

 

[vdonovan]

Vince,

When you say "sticking", what are the symptoms? Is it both curtains, or only one, etc - can you talk us through winding & shutter release? Any odd noises?

I'm glad you asked! Here's the mild version, note streaks on left side:

And the more extreme:

As I mentioned I've had this camera CLAd *twice* in the last 5 years. The last CLA I took it back when the shutter started messing up again after three rolls. They "fixed" it again, but now, about three rolls later again, I'm seeing the problem.

 

[Platinum RF]

It seems to me the two curtains is not in the same speed, the second run fast than the first one, BTW, what is the speed you have used in your post picture? 1/1000? If you have an old curtain check the two curtain overlap place are the sticking?

 

[Roger Hicks]

I have a similar problem with my IIIa. It's been to two top-flight repairers; works for a while; then hangs up intermittently. I've had it almost 40 years, and gave it a hard life for 10-15 of those; it's over 70 years old; so I just gave up. Easier to use another Leica...

Nothing lasts forever.

Cheers,

R.

 

[john neal]

It probably needs new springs inside the shutter drums. Do-able, but a complete strip down and rebuild. Most repairers don't want to do this and try to make up for it by adjusting the tension. Problem is after 70 years that the springs are probably shot.

I would ask Don at DAG for his opinion & if he has any spares available.

 

[vdonovan]

I have a similar problem with my IIIa. It's been to two top-flight repairers; works for a while; then hangs up intermittently. I've had it almost 40 years, and gave it a hard life for 10-15 of those; it's over 70 years old; so I just gave up. Easier to use another Leica...

Nothing lasts forever.

Cheers,

R.

Easier maybe, but not cheaper!

Anyway, to answer Platinum's question, I don't know what shutter speeds were used for the photos. My best guess is that the first image was at 500th. The second was probably at 100th or 60th. I myself haven't checked the curtains at all, though if this keeps up I might crack the thing open myself.

thanks again for your help,
Vince

 

[john neal]

Thinking further about your problem - even if you replaced the springs with new ones, there could be many other places that an old Barnack might be worn. For example, the bearings for the main shutter spindles could be well out of round - and that it not an easy thing to fix.

Unfortunately, there will come a time in the life of a Barnack body when it becomes BER (beyond economic repair). Maybe your just crossed the line?

 

[ZorkiKat]

Maybe not the springs but the blinds? Are the cloth shutter blinds in your camera still original? After a few decades, the shutter cloth may have lost its suppleness and cause too much stress on the springs. Inflexible blinds can make the shutter springs unable to power the shutter properly.

I've had a similar problem with a Zorki-1 I was restoring a few months ago. I used an experimental shutter cloth (different material from what I've been using) for the first time. This camera's shutter won't fire properly at 1/500, always half-capped. No tensioning can make the shutter fire properly at all speeds- increasing the tension made the 1/500 OK at times but will cap half of the time. It also made 1/20 "hang".

So I took the camera apart again, ripped out the newly installed blinds and replaced them with the usual cloth I use. The shutter then worked right. Not only right, but light as well since the tensioning was at the recommended level. Turned out the the experimental cloth was too stiff.

Jay

 

[john neal]

Good call Jay, but I would have expected any 1/2 decent repairer to have tried replacement blinds already.

Still, worth a go, and a lot less than the cost of a new body.....

 

[vdonovan]

Thanks, gents. Gasser did a CLA so I'm not too surprised they didn't do anything with the springs or blinds. They probably thought the curtains were just sticking.

I'm going to contact some of the repairers mentioned in this thread and forward your suggestions to them and get a quote.

thanks and best regards,
Vince