ernesto
Well-known
I wonder if any new product By ZI is being announced for this year at Photokina?
E
E
Photokina 2008
- Thread starter ernesto
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 39
- Views 6K
boxerjim
Newbie
I was wondering, If I was the only one who wondered.
ernesto
Well-known
Thanks! I am not alone, 🙂
drjoke
Well-known
Didn't they just announce a new mount and some new lenses?
Will there be anything else?
Will there be anything else?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
I'll be seeing them on Tuesday...
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
joachim
Convicted Ektachome user
The announcements from Zeiss for Photokina are known for a couple of days.
They will release some of their SLR lenses in Canon EOS, they call it ZE mount:
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BC...91CA1DD9ED2D3E7DC12574C20034047F?OpenDocument
The will (re-)release the famous Distagon 21/2.8 in ZF (Nikon) ,ZK (Pentax) and ZE (EOS)
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BCE0/WebViewAllE/DDF7CD30A02E840BC12574C5004278BF
For the ZM mount they release the Tele-Tessar 85/4
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BCE0/WebViewAllE/529A495DB287B5B5C12574C2003F8E6A
I think all have seen extensive coverage here, but in particular for the Tele-Tessar which is the most relevant item for the RFF, see http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63793 and http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63903
So I am a bit at a loss, whether you just missed these or are trying to wind us up. I hope it is the former so enjoy.
They will release some of their SLR lenses in Canon EOS, they call it ZE mount:
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BC...91CA1DD9ED2D3E7DC12574C20034047F?OpenDocument
The will (re-)release the famous Distagon 21/2.8 in ZF (Nikon) ,ZK (Pentax) and ZE (EOS)
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BCE0/WebViewAllE/DDF7CD30A02E840BC12574C5004278BF
For the ZM mount they release the Tele-Tessar 85/4
http://www.zeiss.com/C1256A770030BCE0/WebViewAllE/529A495DB287B5B5C12574C2003F8E6A
I think all have seen extensive coverage here, but in particular for the Tele-Tessar which is the most relevant item for the RFF, see http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63793 and http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63903
So I am a bit at a loss, whether you just missed these or are trying to wind us up. I hope it is the former so enjoy.
Last edited:
Overconfidence
Member
I think some of us are hoping for a secret exclusive late-release digital zeiss ikon with three cupholders and a weather-tracking sunroof
drjoke
Well-known
Is it typical of them to keep secret hidden product to announce on the actual event?
cam
the need for speed
i could easily live with only two cup holders as long as it has a glove compartment to stash my lipstick and other sundries.
infrequent
Well-known
forget the cupholders...as long as there is iPod compatibility i would be fine.
Zenjitsuman
Established
Another show that disappoints rangefinder users
Another show that disappoints rangefinder users
We are falling behind faster than ever. The M8.2 is not new like the Canon 5DII inside.
We are falling behind on the economics front too. While Canon and Nikon come out with much more for much less we still have no affordable solution to where to use our exceptional lenses on a digital rangefinder.
We are falling behind on technology, and I don't mean just glitzie gizmos. I mean while others have better sensors that don't require filters to fix problems. We still have only a 1.33x crop factor while Canon is selling a very advanced camera for $2600 that's a full frame camera. We need at least a 1.2x crop factor 5:4 ratio (direct 8x10 prints no cropping) sensor with at least 12mp resolution.
Were falling behind, the new G1 could be the digital era paradigm for us but its for a 2x crop factor that makes all our wide angle lenses into standard view lenses.
I am very pessimistic, it seems we are being let down by our friends at Zeiss, Cosina and we know Leica thinks we all are filthy rich and want to pay excessive prices for a camera with medium ability. A Canon 50D equipped with a Canon 24mm F1.4 a 50mm f1.2 and an 85mm f1.2 costs less than a Leica M8.2 with just one fast Leica lens.
Another show that disappoints rangefinder users
We are falling behind faster than ever. The M8.2 is not new like the Canon 5DII inside.
We are falling behind on the economics front too. While Canon and Nikon come out with much more for much less we still have no affordable solution to where to use our exceptional lenses on a digital rangefinder.
We are falling behind on technology, and I don't mean just glitzie gizmos. I mean while others have better sensors that don't require filters to fix problems. We still have only a 1.33x crop factor while Canon is selling a very advanced camera for $2600 that's a full frame camera. We need at least a 1.2x crop factor 5:4 ratio (direct 8x10 prints no cropping) sensor with at least 12mp resolution.
Were falling behind, the new G1 could be the digital era paradigm for us but its for a 2x crop factor that makes all our wide angle lenses into standard view lenses.
I am very pessimistic, it seems we are being let down by our friends at Zeiss, Cosina and we know Leica thinks we all are filthy rich and want to pay excessive prices for a camera with medium ability. A Canon 50D equipped with a Canon 24mm F1.4 a 50mm f1.2 and an 85mm f1.2 costs less than a Leica M8.2 with just one fast Leica lens.
Ray Nalley
Well-known
There is no significant market for a digital rangefinder. Leica doesn't have the R&D to create the camera you want. It's simple economics. The market for the M8 was limited. The market for the 8.2 is even smaller. Should Leica produce a less expensive dRF for M lenses, it would kill the 8.2 market. Hard to find a rose among the thorns.
Zenjitsuman
Established
At least 1.1 million M type rangefinders were produced, be they Konica, Minolta, Bessa, Leica or Zeiss. Most of them have been handed down, resold or kept and CLA'd. Thats a significant market or this would not be a 60 year old market.
A 1.2x or larger DRF sensor camera would sell to other photographers as well look at the GRD, G type photographers p&s camera sales. Nobody says it has to be the same as what we have it could have a VF like the Pany G1 has instead of the complex optical RF or it could be less costly like the Bessa VF.
If your only choices is a $6k camera or nothing I think the whole thing dies. Samsung, Casio, Sony and others could enter the market too. With so many lenses and users still buying gear this is a market the users themselves could be entrapenurial in, just like Mr. K.
I'M just pessimistic our current group of manufacturers could come out with a camera with a better class sensor than a Canon 50d or Nikon D90. Certainly not up to Canons or Nikons best sensors.
A 1.2x or larger DRF sensor camera would sell to other photographers as well look at the GRD, G type photographers p&s camera sales. Nobody says it has to be the same as what we have it could have a VF like the Pany G1 has instead of the complex optical RF or it could be less costly like the Bessa VF.
If your only choices is a $6k camera or nothing I think the whole thing dies. Samsung, Casio, Sony and others could enter the market too. With so many lenses and users still buying gear this is a market the users themselves could be entrapenurial in, just like Mr. K.
I'M just pessimistic our current group of manufacturers could come out with a camera with a better class sensor than a Canon 50d or Nikon D90. Certainly not up to Canons or Nikons best sensors.
parsec1
parsec1
A Nikon drfdr = half the price ,ten times more technological advance, 5 times more reliable (than the M8) able to shoot at all times of the day(not just between 9am and 4pm) without filters and 100% less arrogance. I need three of them now !
cam
the need for speed
and this has to do with a digital rangefinder HOW? :bang:
parsec1
parsec1
parsec1
parsec1
Add we won't get a decent 10meg DRFDR from anybody else
Darren Abate
Professional Shooter
I'm sorry, but I have to chime in here. I think it's time to stop making excuses for why Leica hasn't bit the bullet and dropped their boutique-only attitude and created a VolksLeica RF body that would indeed feed the masses while increasing their market share and guaranteeing that there is indeed a future market for digital rangefinders. The only reason people are saying there isn't a market for them now is because no-one has taken the steps to make that market. There could be a market for them if Leica would rearrange their attitude, and if Zeiss would get off the pot and release a digital Ikon. I am chomping at the bit to buy a couple digital ZI's to replace my aging R-D1.
If Zeiss can partner with Cosina to bring high quality affordable product to the market, then Leica can do the same. The fact seems to be that Leica is no longer interested in being the company that professional shooters turn to when they want the best for the field. Now, it's obvious that they are only interested in being the boutique-only company that supplies hellaciously expensive goodies to those who can afford it. $6000.00 for the 21/24/1.4?! $11,000 for the new Nocti?! I will continue to use my R-D1 until something better comes along, which will probably come from Zeiss (hopefully). I don't care if they are the "best" lenses in the world; that price point is just insane for anyone who is going to use them in the field.
And I don't want to hear the argument about Leica having to charge such prices because they are a "smaller" company, and therefore have to recoup their R&D costs with a higher price, due to their small production runs. They could easily follow the [VolksLeica] line of thinking into a vastly larger marketplace than what they currently have, which would in turn allow them to offer "pro" gear at a more reasonable price ("reasonable" for pros, not the filthy rich).
As a pro shooter myself, I use my R-D1 on assignment fairly regularly. I tried the M8 for a while, and sent it back. While it has a lot of potential, it just wasn't able to cut the mustard like my R-D1 can. And don't anyone tell me that I it was because I wasn't "doing something right" with the camera settings. No, the problems I was having were the camera's fault. But that's neither here nor there. The point is that my R-D1 stepped in and did what the M8 couldn't do. Yes, I prefer my R-D1 to the M8, hands down.
But anyway, I said that to say this: Yes, I sometimes need to use a rangefinder when I'm on assignment, for those obvious qualities that a rangefinder possesses. However, for the price of an M8.2 and one 24/1.4 lens, I could also "make due" with: a 5D MkII, a ZE 50/1.4; ZE 85/1.4; ZE 35/2*; ZE 28/2*; and a ZE 21/2.8, with enough left over for a nice Mont Blanc pen. I defy anyone to defend the logic behind that price difference. I'll put my US 970.00 C Sonnar 50/1.5 against a 3600.00 Summilux-M 50/1.4 any day of the week, and come back smiling. The Leica may be the "better" lens, I'm not sure because I don't wank over MTF charts, but I AM sure that it isn't 2630.00 worth of "better" because I have actually shot with both lenses.
The only reason that Leica is still a small company is Leica.
Okay, I'm done ranting. Sorry to vent on you guys, but that's been brewing.
*When released of course.
parsec1
parsec1
Zenjitsuman
Established
I agree with what you just wrote, its much the same point of view as my two posts.
With so many people not wanting to carry a 4 lb. camera and lens around, not wanting to stand out in a crowd, not wanting to carry a backpack camera bag a digital RF the size of a our film rf indeed could succeed. It has before, like I said 1.1 million of these cameras were sold over 60 years time and a majority of them still survive.
Zeiss , Cosina and Leica could get sensors from Samsung, Sony or Panasonic and have bodies made by Cosina, Sony or Pentax. The Zeiss proved that the design of a camera can be implemented by a third party. Today cameras are more electronics in nature than mechanical and so many companies can manufacture these items.
Lots of posts here and on Photo.net show just how many others are waiting for a digital RF. A live view setup like on the new G1 could lower the costs too and eliminate external VF and paralex promblems.
The main thing is that a boutique will only work for rich amatuers who want custom colors, etc.
Besides the digital Leica Camera is not capable of competing with pro dslr cameras like the film cameras could when we all used the same film. Nikon and Canon DSLR cameras are years more advanced in sensor technology and image processor chips.
I don't actually care I just want a decent home for my expensive lenses on a camera I can afford and carry around when not lugging my Nikon gear.
With so many people not wanting to carry a 4 lb. camera and lens around, not wanting to stand out in a crowd, not wanting to carry a backpack camera bag a digital RF the size of a our film rf indeed could succeed. It has before, like I said 1.1 million of these cameras were sold over 60 years time and a majority of them still survive.
Zeiss , Cosina and Leica could get sensors from Samsung, Sony or Panasonic and have bodies made by Cosina, Sony or Pentax. The Zeiss proved that the design of a camera can be implemented by a third party. Today cameras are more electronics in nature than mechanical and so many companies can manufacture these items.
Lots of posts here and on Photo.net show just how many others are waiting for a digital RF. A live view setup like on the new G1 could lower the costs too and eliminate external VF and paralex promblems.
The main thing is that a boutique will only work for rich amatuers who want custom colors, etc.
Besides the digital Leica Camera is not capable of competing with pro dslr cameras like the film cameras could when we all used the same film. Nikon and Canon DSLR cameras are years more advanced in sensor technology and image processor chips.
I don't actually care I just want a decent home for my expensive lenses on a camera I can afford and carry around when not lugging my Nikon gear.
Similar threads
