Photoshop

[Sparrow]

I don't get the creative cloud fear here. You guys are aware that the software only reports home every few weeks?
You are also aware that no one is forcing you to store your work in the cloud, or run the actual program online?

This deal is a PAYGO for your software plus 20gb online storage-that's it.
How will DoS affect people? I mean unless you choose to store critical work online that is a non issue, most sensible people will work with HD's just as they've always done.

I understand peoples reaction to lease rather than buy, but the angst about the optional use of cloud technology? that mystifies me how do you guys feel about e-mail? or file silo or any online based tech?
How often had DoS stopped you posting here or putting your images on Flickr in the last 5 years?

I just don't get the outrage.

... do you understand the difference between leasing and buying a car? ...

 

[user237428934]

... do you understand the difference between leasing and buying a car? ...

All the freelancers and people owning a company lease a car. And all the employees higher up in the hierarchy where the company pays part of the lease rate have a lease car too. All the others buy a car.

If you earn money with the software then leasing might be the smarter solution.

I bet Adobe calculated the impact of the new model and they don't care about all those users who buy an Adobe product once or twice in a lifetime and are now pi**ed. Adobe does not really earn money with those people and Adobe is no charity organization.

 

[user237428934]

I just don't get the outrage.

People mix the lease thing with the cloud thing as they like. That some people don't like the move towards the lease model is understandable. The discussion about the cloud features is full of misinformation.

 

[Photo_Smith]

... do you understand the difference between leasing and buying a car? ...

Of course I do! That wasn't what I wrote in my post! If you bother to read my post you'll see I said I understand the angst about the subscription model.

What I don't understand is the angst about the cloud.
I don't think I could have written it in plainer English!

It seems the whole internet is full of people who either have no wish to read (and just respond to what they think is said) or just carry on the the same incorrect tired disproven arguments in a circular fashion.

What happened to basic comprehension?

As far as I can see, if you don't want to use Adobe in the future now is the time to stop buying their software.

The worry about losing all your work in the cloud is just either misunderstanding or FUD spreading by anti Adobe trolls.

The software doesn't require the internet for daily use, it just phones home every few weeks, just as it has since CS1

 

[Sparrow]

Of course I do! That wasn't what I wrote in my post! If you bother to read my post you'll see I said I understand the angst about the subscription model.

What I don't understand is the angst about the cloud.
I don't think I could have written it in plainer English!

The cloud isn't the issue ... the software isn't on the cloud is it? it's just regular software on ones' hard-drive that checks in with Adobe periodically to ask permission to keep running ... people are unhappy they don't get a choice to treat their expenditure as a capital asset or a fixed cost of business.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I don't get the creative cloud fear here.

Ever had a power shortage? A phonecall drop in the middle of an important conversation?

You guys are aware that the software only reports home every few weeks?

Alors?

You are also aware that no one is forcing you to store your work in the cloud, or run the actual program online?

I don't think you are quite understanding the "fear" (one man's concern is another man's "fear").

This deal is a PAYGO for your software plus 20gb online storage-that's it.

Err...no, that's not it.

How will DoS affect people? I mean unless you choose to store critical work online that is a non issue, most sensible people will work with HD's just as they've always done.

I guess the 911 call pseudo-example was too fuzzy. Imagine your electric car needs to "call home" in order to check that your lease is in good standing; the Hybrid Kloud had an issue because (X happened), and it's 3AM, and you need to get to the Emergency Room post-haste...the car won't start. You're S.O.L.

The argument "oh, do you expect that scenario to really happen?" That attitude is what concerns me. Or "fear", if you'd like.

I understand peoples reaction to lease rather than buy, but the angst about the optional use of cloud technology?

Right: "optional". Reading is overrated. Adobe saying "it's all cloud-based from now on" isn't an "option" for consumers. Well, actually yes, if you opt not to buy into it.

that mystifies me how do you guys feel about e-mail? or file silo or any online based tech?

E-mail is great. E-mail service breaks down too. I hate spam. I wouldn't make e-mail my only means of communication. I wouldn't make "the cloud" my only means of using software.

How often had DoS stopped you posting here or putting your images on Flickr in the last 5 years?

Oh, often.

I just don't get the outrage.

It is difficult to convince daltonians that there's a difference between red and green, until they understand what daltonism is.

 

[Photo_Smith]

First question:
No I haven't, but if you have a power shortage current version of software won't work either, neither will your PC.

Second question- Alors? I don't understand keep it to English please. If you mean you have a dropout while it phones home then your software is good for 3 weeks (it won't stop working) presumably your 'drop out' won't last that long!

Third:
The 'fear' is through misunderstanding. Knowledge is the antidote.

Fourth
Yes it is. You are wrong about the need for constant internet connection How hard is it to understand this is lease software with online storage-YOU DON"T NEED TO USE IT ONLINE.

Five
Wrong! if your internet connection is down you software won't stop working for 30 days (99 days for annual payers) are you telling me you're offline for longer?

The cloud is optional-PERIOD if you don't want to use it don't just install the app (presuming you have a connection) and use it as you always have.

Six
So you've had DoS restricting you from using the internet? I think that's not a common thing for most people; certainly not for 30-99 days.

Seven
You seem to be unaware of the issues involved-i guess you're going to continue with you stupid assertions even when they are debunked?
I guess daltonism is less of a handicap than that of shutting your eyes and sticking you fingers in your ears, singing LA LA LA I can't hear you every time you're confronted with simple facts.

And finally to sum it up here is your quote:
I wouldn't make e-mail my only means of communication. I wouldn't make "the cloud" my only means of using software.

This is the misunderstanding, the cloud is NOT the only means of using this software, once you can get over that basic hurdle you'll see the rest of you argument is wholly illogical.

 

[Sparrow]

Big Edit

This is the misunderstanding, the cloud is NOT the only means of using this software, once you can get over that basic hurdle you'll see the rest of you argument is wholly illogical.

... so, perhaps you could explain what the cloud is a means of doing then?

 

[leicapixie]

The outright arrogance of Adobe is the key.
i remember another such company with similar attitudes.. Introducing new formats, new technologies and a few years later, abandoning them..
Kodak. Where are they now.
Bon Voyage Adobe.

 

[Photo_Smith]

... so, perhaps you could explain what the cloud is a means of doing then?

Why should I explain? Surely before going off on one people are checking their info?
Surely you aren't just assuming without informing yourself prior to posting?

There is plenty of information on CC on the internet thingy
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Adobe+creative+cloud

NB the cloud is optional, you don't need it to use your software.

 

[Bill Clark]

At first blush I see this move eliminating many folks. As I used to be a full time professional photographer, I spent way less on upgrading Photoshop to what Adobe will charge for the on line service. I was at the point that CS4 works just fine for me. As a person who did own a small business, it was a business first and I had to figure out how I could make a decent living making photographs of people. Perhaps this will work if you work at or run a large business but it wouldn't for me.

How about the amateur photographer? Will they want to spend $50.00 per month for this service? Time will tell. To me software is getting to the point of looking and saying, "I'll skip the upgrade this time, not enough change to make it worth it." I would skip using this service.

Hope Adobe has talked with their base of customers to determine if this will work? Is it another JCP? Time will tell.

 

[_mark__]

Use CS2 it is free as adobe no longer support it and is available for download from the adobe website, a are all the CS2 programs.

 

[Sparrow]

Why should I explain? Surely before going off on one people are checking their info?
Surely you aren't just assuming without informing yourself prior to posting?

There is plenty of information on CC on the internet thingy
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Adobe+creative+cloud

NB the cloud is optional, you don't need it to use your software.

... well you seemed so eager to tell everyone where they were in error, I thought you would be as keen to explain Adobe's true motives.

BTW, I didn't go-off-on-one I simply pointed out the shift of the software from a Capital Item to a Fixed Cost, it doesn't matter to me now, but when I ran a studio that would have been a big deal for a critical component in the production route.

 

[Photo_Smith]

... well you seemed so eager to tell everyone where they were in error, I thought you would be as keen to explain Adobe's true motives.

Stewart I'm just a photographer, why should I be party or able to explain the 'true motives' of a company?

What I'm doing is just correcting the misinformation that you need constant internet access to use the software and that the 'cloud' is required to store all created files.
Both are false-it's up to the individual to check on those things BEFORE they post.
That's my last word.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

First question:
No I haven't, but if you have a power shortage current version of software won't work either, neither will your PC.

Yes, the PC will keep on working if you have an UPS unit (i.e. backup power).

Second question- Alors? I don't understand keep it to English please.

My point is that the question is as relevant and interesting as the answer. Any language would have been as relevant.

The 'fear' is through misunderstanding. Knowledge is the antidote.

Ah, you fear my concern, then? Given that you don't understand it. Meguesses (that's Shakespearean Englifh)

Fourth
Yes it is. You are wrong about the need for constant internet connection How hard is it to understand this is lease software with online storage-YOU DON"T NEED TO USE IT ONLINE.

You are wrong about you assuming I need or infer constant internet connectivity. The need to have internet connectivity to authenticate usage long term is what the issue is. I fear that your thinking I "fear" is clouding the argument(s).

Five
Wrong! if your internet connection is down you software won't stop working for 30 days (99 days for annual payers) are you telling me you're offline for longer?

Nope, that's not what I'm telling you. I think it's been established that no matter how verbose I get, you'll filter my points through your perception that I refuse to understand anything you're stating, thus rendering our conversation an exercise in Colmes vs. Hannity.

The cloud is optional-PERIOD if you don't want to use it don't just install the app (presuming you have a connection) and use it as you always have.

If I am wrong on this point, please point me (us?) in the right direction: where are you getting this information from? Adobe has said otherwise.

Six
So you've had DoS restricting you from using the internet? I think that's not a common thing for most people; certainly not for 30-99 days.

Again, reading is overrated, misunderinterpreting isn't.

Seven
You seem to be unaware of the issues involved-i guess you're going to continue with you stupid assertions even when they are debunked?

Yes, I guess my degree in Computer Science and 18 years of working in the industry have done that. Wait, no...

I guess daltonism is less of a handicap than that of shutting your eyes and sticking you fingers in your ears, singing LA LA LA I can't hear you every time you're confronted with simple facts.

Ah, we're now getting into an art debate. Yes, vision can be a handicap when expecting a painting out of a symphony. Unless you're Scriabin or dropping acid... 😀

And finally to sum it up here is your quote:
I wouldn't make e-mail my only means of communication. I wouldn't make "the cloud" my only means of using software.

This is the misunderstanding, the cloud is NOT the only means of using this software, once you can get over that basic hurdle you'll see the rest of you argument is wholly illogical.

Wholly and completely illogical, yes, when the points have been interpreted as they have.

 

[Photo_Smith]

Gabriel your cognitive dissonance is duly noted.

How am I misinterpreting this?:
I wouldn't make "the cloud" my only means of using software.

Please tell me what you mean if you aren't trying to assert 'the cloud' is your only means of using software?

Here from Adobe:
Q:Why am I being forced to work in the 'cloud'?

The simple answer is that you're not. Once you've subscribed, you still download Photoshop and install it on your preferred hard drive. You can open, edit and save files locally just as you would in CS6. While Adobe is touting the connectivity and collaborative features of its CC applications, and providing 20GB of online storage, you can choose not to take advantage of these services.

You can squirm like a worm and shift your position as much as you like the paragraph above is so simple even you can understand it!!
As far as your 'points' are concerned:
Again, reading is overrated, misunderinterpreting isn't.
That pretty much sums you up.

 

[user237428934]

There is another question in the FAQs if it's possible to restrict the use of certain cloud services (cloud storage, community function,..) Answer is, that each individual servicecall can be disabled. The whole sharing, sync and backup in the cloud is completely optional.

But I see a real benefit for the Adobe cloud services. If you have the problem to work on more than one device or you are working in a small team without a dedicated network, how do solve this issue today? You already use some 3rd party cloud services like dropbox or skydrive to share your data. So you already rely on external services. Switching to Adobe services makes this situation not better or worse but now brings native connectivity from Adobe products to the cloud storage.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Gabriel your cognitive dissonance is duly noted.

I don't like Karl Rove either, so I'll take that as a not-compliment. And further evidence of misinterpretation.

How am I misinterpreting this?:
I wouldn't make "the cloud" my only means of using software.

I really don't know how you are, but it's evident due to the highly-caffeinated reaction. My statement is exactly that: I would not make "the cloud" my only means of using software.

Please tell me what you mean if you aren't trying to assert 'the cloud' is your only means of using software?

Emm...I didn't assert that "the cloud" is my only means of using software. I asserted that I wouldn't make it as my only means of using software.

Here from Adobe:
Q:Why am I being forced to work in the 'cloud'?

The simple answer is that you're not. Once you've subscribed, you still download Photoshop and install it on your preferred hard drive. You can open, edit and save files locally just as you would in CS6. While Adobe is touting the connectivity and collaborative features of its CC applications, and providing 20GB of online storage, you can choose not to take advantage of these services.

Ah, Who's On First. Whoeh's on Second. It's funny when you're not in the sketch.

Let me tell you where my Whoeh from your Who differs (if that would make any difference at all):

Who's On First: believing that a service with the word "cloud" in it makes you work only when you have an Internet connection.

Whoeh's on Second: having a subscription-based service which relies implicitly on Internet access as a means of access authentication is a shift from pay-once-and-use-at-will.

You can squirm like a worm and shift your position as much as you like the paragraph above is so simple even you can understand it!!

I can't even begin to point out where this has turned into a Monty Python sketch.

As far as your 'points' are concerned:
Again, reading is overrated, misunderinterpreting isn't.
That pretty much sums you up.

::sigh::

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

There is another question in the FAQs if it's possible to restrict the use of certain cloud services (cloud storage, community function,..) Answer is, that each individual servicecall can be disabled. The whole sharing, sync and backup in the cloud is completely optional.

But I see a real benefit for the Adobe cloud services. If you have the problem to work on more than one device or you are working in a small team without a dedicated network, how do solve this issue today? You already use some 3rd party cloud services like dropbox or skydrive to share your data. So you already rely on external services. Switching to Adobe services makes this situation not better or worse but now brings native connectivity from Adobe products to the cloud storage.

There are obviously many points that need an awful lot of clarification, and it'll be difficult to bring out valid points when those who completely agree that this Idea is 100% flawless cannot understand how this possibly couldn't be a Good Idea.


Let's leave the user data storage out of the equation (mainly to simplify the arguments, because to some all humans are mammals, and since horses have four legs and are mammals, therefore humans have four legs, it's just as simple as that you see?).

Moving from an ownership model over to a subscription model is a huge shift for those people who would rather buy than rent. Some would swear on the awesome benefits of renting, others on the awesome benefits of ownership.

Furthermore, having a subscription model where the only means of installation is network-based (i.e. so-called "cloud") poses a huge problem for businesses and individuals who themselves are in a physical location where there are different realities: working remotely, working on different desktops, the workplace is behind a highly secure firewall, a school infrastructure which is still in the late 20th century...

Say you're on the field for over a year, and your laptop has absolutely no Internet access. How will Adobe reconcile that? What happens if your equipment is toast, and you need to get one right away, sent to you from elsewhere?

It's not like in a case where let's say your car breaks down and you need to buy another and then have someone deliver it to you in the field: no, this model will force you to either 1) move from the field to take care of this and back or 2) transmit your personal/financial information to someone else so that they can get it for you and deliver it to you.

These are things that high-level big wigs do not think about, and comes burning them when a significant clientbase tells them their means of delivering services no longer functions for them.

This is one of the many dangers of oversimplifying "the cloud". That concept was conceived to provide convenience to end-users. This model is not convenient to a significant number of end-users, and if Adobe is happy with their decision, then they should be happy about the exodus from those who will not accept it.

This issue is more about poor vision from executives than it is about consumers being "too dumb" to accept their vision. Companies cannot get paid if there are no consumers to pay them (unless you're in a business-welfare or wholly communist system, which is an entirely different debate).

Taking "the cloud" out of the equation: forcing all users to take it or leave it when it comes to de facto leasing is a Very Bad Idea.

When Netflix decided they'd get rid of physical deliveries, they took a huge hit. It wasn't because all users were ludites, it's because 1) they didn't understand their clients' habits and expectations and 2) customers felt betrayed. Before that, Netflix did amazingly well with their "cloud"-based offerings (TiVo, Wii, PC content delivery). But taking an option *away*, specially one which is thought of as a Right and is at the very foundation of Capitalism, ownership, is bad bad bad bad when that's what your client base is used to.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

At first blush I see this move eliminating many folks. As I used to be a full time professional photographer, I spent way less on upgrading Photoshop to what Adobe will charge for the on line service. I was at the point that CS4 works just fine for me. As a person who did own a small business, it was a business first and I had to figure out how I could make a decent living making photographs of people. Perhaps this will work if you work at or run a large business but it wouldn't for me.

I agree wholeheartedly. Imagine that you no longer have the option to buy a car, but to pay a monthly subscription, whether you use it all day, or once a month? Does it make sense? It makes more sense to pay it off, and use as your life and/or business circumstances dictate.

How about the amateur photographer? Will they want to spend $50.00 per month for this service? Time will tell. To me software is getting to the point of looking and saying, "I'll skip the upgrade this time, not enough change to make it worth it." I would skip using this service.

That is at the core of this: they didn't give this time. From what I've read, they felt that maintaining two separate but equal branches (packaged software and "cloud"-based offerings) was redundant and too much of a hassle. Their decision is mainly based on what's convenient for them and not their clients.

While riding a limo may be more convenient for corporate clients, forcing everybody else to rent a limo is an exercise in bourgeois tone-deafness.

Hope Adobe has talked with their base of customers to determine if this will work? Is it another JCP? Time will tell.

Some info from Dow Jones:

(snip)

At Vertigo Software Inc. in Point Richmond, Calif., five of the 13 staff designers have switched to Creative Cloud and the rest will soon follow, said Tony Sokolowski, vice president of design. Having all Adobe tools at everyone's fingertips is a plus, he said, although the storage, sharing and editing features of the cloud service need improvement.

He estimates that his company over time will pay more for software through the subscription service than buying packaged programs. "The regular monthly cost is easier for budgeting, even if it will cost us more in the long term," he said.

That's another endemic problem: short-term solutions, and long-term repercussions. Bean-counting has created a paradoxical environment where, in an effort to save money now, money is being thrown away long-term. Add to it the need for most industries to have perpetually-consuming clients. This model is great in the short-term, specially if your bank account is in the receiving end; in the long-term, it's a disaster.

An Adobe spokesman said cloud subscribers are receiving additional value such as storage and collaboration not available with the packaged products.

Yes, if I were forced to rent a limo when I needed to go to the other end of town to go grocery shopping, you could argue that the extra space is an "additional value" not available with the Ford Fiesta.

"It's no longer about the number of units sold, but the number of subscription customers and the quality of that relationship," said Brian Bell, chief marketing officer for Zuora Inc., which helps companies establish subscription businesses. "That's a big shift for an enterprise software company."

Humans with four legs: think of the benefits! Less complicated when using horses with syllogisms. Unless you understand how humans work...