Didier
"Deed"
Just received a picture from the new TRI-ELMAR. The source is known to me as insider.
Didier
Didier
Picture Of The Tri-elmar 16/18/21
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terrafirmanada
Well-known
Looks like alot of fun for all M cameras.
Nachkebia
Well-known
Lovely 🙂 I like it 🙂
Didier
"Deed"
This new Tri-Elmar looks slightly fatter than the 28-35-50 Tri-Elmar.
But the more sensational thing seems to be this new finder. Looks like the framelines are switchable. The wheel at the top front seems to have indexes for 28-24-21-18-16 (that's all variations of the new tri-elmar for fullframe and cropped). Can't really read the indexes of the wheel behind it. Are these focal lengths or distance marks? The index closest to the back seems to be an infinity sign, but I'm not shure. I expect the parallax is likely adjusted with the weel at the bottom, close to the hotshoe mount? Does the top wheel behind eventually offer even more framelines for other focal lengths?
Didier
But the more sensational thing seems to be this new finder. Looks like the framelines are switchable. The wheel at the top front seems to have indexes for 28-24-21-18-16 (that's all variations of the new tri-elmar for fullframe and cropped). Can't really read the indexes of the wheel behind it. Are these focal lengths or distance marks? The index closest to the back seems to be an infinity sign, but I'm not shure. I expect the parallax is likely adjusted with the weel at the bottom, close to the hotshoe mount? Does the top wheel behind eventually offer even more framelines for other focal lengths?
Didier
rvaubel
Well-known
Didier said:
I ain't putting that thing on my camera. JezzLouise, its HUGE! Sort of defeats the whole reason for a rangefinder. I think I'll just use the CV 15mm finder and guess for the 18mm & 21mm. Close enough.
Rex
Nachkebia
Well-known
rvaubel : You wont, rich canonites will, to pose in the hood 😀
S
StuartR
Guest
It probably has different framelines for digital and film, allowing you to use one finder. But I agree, it looks rather large, but at least the profile is flat rather than sticking way up like the Varifocal finder. It looks like it has an integrated bubble level as well, and the little grill is probably to light the framelines like on the rangefinder, so chances are it will have very bright, clear framelines like in the camera's viewfinder. Overall it looks like a good idea. If it has high performance, it seems like a better idea than lugging around 3-5 separate viewfinders. That said, I will be surprised if it is under 500 dollars. It looks like it is smaller or about the same size as the old hotshoe coupled meters, which aren't THAT huge in practice...
The lens looks great to me. f/2.8 is nice to have, but sacrificing one stop to gain two more focal lengths is something I could easily live with. 16 and 18mm are going to be WIDE on film...very cool. Hopefully they managed to control distortion and vignetting to a reasonable extent.
The lens looks great to me. f/2.8 is nice to have, but sacrificing one stop to gain two more focal lengths is something I could easily live with. 16 and 18mm are going to be WIDE on film...very cool. Hopefully they managed to control distortion and vignetting to a reasonable extent.
sdai
Established
I suspect how many would routinely shoot with an ultra wide at f2.8 ... f/4 is more than sufficient. The M8 firmware will "fix" all the distortion and vignetting for sure.
rvaubel
Well-known
StuartR said:
I'de rather have a 18mm F2.8 myself. But beggers can't be chosers, but at $4000 its a little steep for my blood especially after blowing 5K on the M8.
I still can't wait....😱
Rex
Mark Norton
Well-known
The Leica publicity machine is leaking like a sieve now. That is one weird looking finder. Pity they didn't integrate it into the M8.
AndyPiper
Established
Front dial is FoV, back dial is parallax correction, wheel on the foot is just the hot-shoe lock (like most flashes and the current 21-24-28 zoom finder)
Bubble on top rear is a level - or it communicates via infrared with the blue dot on the front of the M8 (wink!)
I won't critique the size until I try it on a body - espcially trying to pull the combo out of a camera bag fast. Likely the only way Leica could get BOTH a variable finder AND brightlines was to more or less replicate the cameras' internal finder (right down to the serrated illumination window) on a wide scale.
But I AM glad I already have 21 and 24 individual bright-line finders!
BTW I saw somewhere that the Tri-Elmar price INCLUDES THE FINDER - which may make it a more reasonable price.
Crop factor is simple - on a film M one uses the actual focal lengths (16-18-21) on the M8 one uses the upper end of the scale (21-24-28). No separate controls/dials needed.
Oh - AND: this is not only the first lens that LEICA has designed for M or R wider than 19mm (previous 15s were Zeiss or Schneider optics), it is also the first and only lens wider than 19mm made for the M with RF (rather than scale) focusing.
Bubble on top rear is a level - or it communicates via infrared with the blue dot on the front of the M8 (wink!)
I won't critique the size until I try it on a body - espcially trying to pull the combo out of a camera bag fast. Likely the only way Leica could get BOTH a variable finder AND brightlines was to more or less replicate the cameras' internal finder (right down to the serrated illumination window) on a wide scale.
But I AM glad I already have 21 and 24 individual bright-line finders!
BTW I saw somewhere that the Tri-Elmar price INCLUDES THE FINDER - which may make it a more reasonable price.
Crop factor is simple - on a film M one uses the actual focal lengths (16-18-21) on the M8 one uses the upper end of the scale (21-24-28). No separate controls/dials needed.
Oh - AND: this is not only the first lens that LEICA has designed for M or R wider than 19mm (previous 15s were Zeiss or Schneider optics), it is also the first and only lens wider than 19mm made for the M with RF (rather than scale) focusing.
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Didier,
Herrlich !
Herrlich !
rvaubel
Well-known
AndyPiper said:
You won't be pulling that combo out of a camera bag fast.
For me, fiddling with finders defeats the purpose of a rangefinder. I just leave the VC28-35 dual finder on my RD1 and I'm good to go from 21mm to 90mm (actual).
For the new tri-elmar I'd have to swap to a wider finder, but I'm sure that one finder could cover the 16 to 21mm range without a problem.
Rex
garethc
Established
I will be quick to admit i'm a newbie when it comes to rf cameras but is this lens combo what people really hoped for? It seems somewhat limited to me.
AndyPiper
Established
Gareth: Understand that this is not a "kit" lens, but a superwide sort-of-zoom at the extreme wide end. The M8 will also work with existing lenses going back 50 years that cover the longer focal lengths 21-24-28-35-50-75-90 (and likely 135, even though Leica doesn't think so). This lens just maintains wide-angle capability with the smaller-than-film sensor, restoring the 21 and 24 "views" that the sensor crops away.
Since the Leica system includes 50 f/1.0 and 75 f/1.4 and 35 f/1.4 lenses - it is by no means limited.
In terms of what I'd hoped for - wel I would have prefered a 16mm f/2.8 prime lens. But other folks might have wanted a 17 or 18mm prime lens. By providing a multi-focal lens, Leica is able to cover 3 fields of view with one optical design - important since they had a deadline to meet, and keep both the 21 and 24 users happy. It would not surprise me to see some faster single focal length wide lenses eventually become available - no only in the range covered by this lens, but a 28 f/1.4 perhaps.
Since the Leica system includes 50 f/1.0 and 75 f/1.4 and 35 f/1.4 lenses - it is by no means limited.
In terms of what I'd hoped for - wel I would have prefered a 16mm f/2.8 prime lens. But other folks might have wanted a 17 or 18mm prime lens. By providing a multi-focal lens, Leica is able to cover 3 fields of view with one optical design - important since they had a deadline to meet, and keep both the 21 and 24 users happy. It would not surprise me to see some faster single focal length wide lenses eventually become available - no only in the range covered by this lens, but a 28 f/1.4 perhaps.
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S
StuartR
Guest
Limited in what way? Zooms are not possible, but having a lens with 3 separate ultra-wide focal lengths in one compact lens with reasonable speed seems like quite a huge accomplishment to me. If this lens were from another manufacturer, I might not be as impressed, but whether you like their price structure or not, one thing Leica does is make every lens a great lens. There is not a bad lens in Leica's entire lineup and they would not release this if it did not perform very well. The accessory finder is simply a fact of life in using rangefinder cameras. Unless you made the camera finder huge and extremely low magnification, it would not be possible to use the lenses without an external finder. As external finders go, switching a knob to change focal length is easier than taking one finder off and putting another one on. Personally, I think this looks like a superb implimentation.
garethc
Established
I didn't mean that the lens is limited as such but I suppose I had assumed (or hoped) that it would provide 35mm equivelants of 21, 28 and maybe something even wider rather than the 24.
AndyPiper
Established
The finder does look a little like it was designed by Leica Geosystems, doesn't it? Should be used by a surveyor on top of a theodolite...
Mark Norton
Well-known
Evne though I am not a fan of finders, I like it, I like the way it mimics the old Leica Meter. I hope the body is made of metal, not plastic.
We don't have much of a reference but the depth of the finder is probably the same as the thickness of the camera body. The focal length selection is similar to the R-D1 and that is fine. One thing which would grate would be having to adjust for the crop factor before dialling in your focal length, it would be better to have a film/digital selector, or, better yet, have the finder detect what type of camera it is mounted on from the hot shoe. The distance scales looks like infinity, 20, 10, 7 , 5, maybe.
This lens, if you believed the leaked Italian price list information from Marco, was going to cost €2500; makes me think that price (and the €3800 for the body) were dealer prices and excluded VAT. Add 20% margin plus 16% German VAT to the lens and you get to €3480, call it €3500, $3800 + tax, £2400.
We don't have much of a reference but the depth of the finder is probably the same as the thickness of the camera body. The focal length selection is similar to the R-D1 and that is fine. One thing which would grate would be having to adjust for the crop factor before dialling in your focal length, it would be better to have a film/digital selector, or, better yet, have the finder detect what type of camera it is mounted on from the hot shoe. The distance scales looks like infinity, 20, 10, 7 , 5, maybe.
This lens, if you believed the leaked Italian price list information from Marco, was going to cost €2500; makes me think that price (and the €3800 for the body) were dealer prices and excluded VAT. Add 20% margin plus 16% German VAT to the lens and you get to €3480, call it €3500, $3800 + tax, £2400.
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Terence T
Where'd my Bessa go?
Does anyone else find the focal lengths a little too close? I would think a slightly wider variation like a 14-20-28 would be better suited.
