Calzone
Gear Whore #1
F,
Printing is expensive. I'm stingy too. I do everything I can do to contain costs like buying in bulk and using sales, but those costs do add up.
Also I have been looking into standardized framing and mats because custom frames are out of the question.
Anyways I envy you for having a wet darkroom. I don't have the space nor the money. I'm broke already. I do know where all my disposable income goes though. LOL.
Cal
______
Well-known
Every carton of PP cartridges should come with a bib.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
F,
I was kinda being literal since Glossy Piezo prints can be handled like one of your wet prints and are not as fragile as typical ink jet prints. As a demonstration I take some spit on my finger and wipe my wet finger across one of my prints which I dry with a napkin. No damage results. LOL.
I'll be sure to do it again this Sunday at the NYC Meet-Up when I show off some prints.
Also from printing big I learned that there is something very nice about holding say a 13x19 or smaller print in one's hands. A very different experience than seeing a print framed on the wall. I think the book I am making will have a similar experience.
BTW thanks for the inspiration that helped me adjust my borders.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
V,
I wonder what are the border restrictions that are imposed with front loading? I am unaware because my 3880 could not front load.
The "Faberryman Workaround" I mentioned could possibly allow you to likewise use smaller borders if it is just a lengthy trailing edge that is required to avoid skewing and head strikes.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I failed to mention that for the most recent printing I used NYC night shots that utilize extensive blacks. The purpose is to explore the worse case with Pizza Wheels and with seeing how to manuver around the border restrictions.
I want to test to see if there are limitations to using a 17x22 when using the Faberryman Workaround due to ink load that might cause head strikes.
Currently I advance the platen gap from normal to wide for Canson Platine Fibre Rag. The Jon Cone Type 5 due to ink load is unusable, and I had a difficult Saturday full of head strikes due to paper that buckled and bowed like a banana.
Last night I located my "Bone Folders" from two decades ago. Back then I took a bookbinding course and met my gal. When I folded the Canson Platine Fibre Rag it made the Baryta clay flake and the paper I feel got compromised too much structurally to my liking. Oh-well. I have a plan "B" that will be yet another workaround to make a page, but it now involves more work and creating a hinge to spine interface. Anyways this damage will be where I cut the two prints apart so the damage I mentioned becomes moot.
I am very anxious to see big prints because of how the detail and tonality comes out. I know from printing these tiffs that these small prints have compressed the image and the tonality. The expansion should be profound and deep.
Somehow I feel like a crack head or a drug addict. Been printing every day, except the one day when I reloaded my carts and let the air bubbles and foam settle. Now I'm worrying about running out of paper. That 25 sheet box of Canson 13x19 is almost gone and this Thursday or tomorrow I'll have to load again ($108 with NYC tax). I'm considering using Canson Baryta Photographique which is 100% cellulose which is a few dollars cheaper, but the size increases to 17x22 ($104 with NYC tax). Pretty easy to spend $100.00 a week on just paper alone. Using my Jersey Barrier just multiplies the costs.
Perhaps I'll use the small batch of 11 inch prints (two on 13x19) to make a small mock-up of a book to develop and work out problems. Maybe I can print two 10x15's on a 17x22?
No loss from my failure with Jon Cone Type 5. It seems that PP loves bright smooth Baryta papers that Canson makes. Seems almost like PP was designed especially for them.
Cal
I want to test to see if there are limitations to using a 17x22 when using the Faberryman Workaround due to ink load that might cause head strikes.
Currently I advance the platen gap from normal to wide for Canson Platine Fibre Rag. The Jon Cone Type 5 due to ink load is unusable, and I had a difficult Saturday full of head strikes due to paper that buckled and bowed like a banana.
Last night I located my "Bone Folders" from two decades ago. Back then I took a bookbinding course and met my gal. When I folded the Canson Platine Fibre Rag it made the Baryta clay flake and the paper I feel got compromised too much structurally to my liking. Oh-well. I have a plan "B" that will be yet another workaround to make a page, but it now involves more work and creating a hinge to spine interface. Anyways this damage will be where I cut the two prints apart so the damage I mentioned becomes moot.
I am very anxious to see big prints because of how the detail and tonality comes out. I know from printing these tiffs that these small prints have compressed the image and the tonality. The expansion should be profound and deep.
Somehow I feel like a crack head or a drug addict. Been printing every day, except the one day when I reloaded my carts and let the air bubbles and foam settle. Now I'm worrying about running out of paper. That 25 sheet box of Canson 13x19 is almost gone and this Thursday or tomorrow I'll have to load again ($108 with NYC tax). I'm considering using Canson Baryta Photographique which is 100% cellulose which is a few dollars cheaper, but the size increases to 17x22 ($104 with NYC tax). Pretty easy to spend $100.00 a week on just paper alone. Using my Jersey Barrier just multiplies the costs.
Perhaps I'll use the small batch of 11 inch prints (two on 13x19) to make a small mock-up of a book to develop and work out problems. Maybe I can print two 10x15's on a 17x22?
No loss from my failure with Jon Cone Type 5. It seems that PP loves bright smooth Baryta papers that Canson makes. Seems almost like PP was designed especially for them.
Cal
______
Well-known
Definitely think about standardizing print sizes, mats and frames. I have a bunch of mats I have precut and frames I have stockpiled. It's nice to pull a print off the drying screen, pop it into the drymount press for flattening, and five minutes later have it matted and framed. I don't show anything to anybody unless it is at least matted. It makes a huge difference.
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
F,
Last year I had the honor of printing for exhibition some of my friend's work. The work was shown in Hong Kong as part of a book release. In doing the printing I made sure my friend took into consideration framing, because otherwise custom framing would be cost prohibited.
Sometimes one has to print to use stock sizes, and print sizes have to be carefully considered. Custom framing gets costly very fast.
Cal
walkerblackwell
Newbie
Just an update to Pro. I finished the *beta* master curve for PiezoDN (digital negative) for Pro inks today. It's available from the PiezoDN download for anyone who has the inkset and wants to make negs.
best,
Walker
best,
Walker
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Today looks like I need to do a run to B&H for more paper. 25 sheets lasts about a week.
I'll be sharing some of this work with a friend at B&H. Hope I have no problem smuggling my prints past the baggage check.
I think I will be graduating to Canson Baryta Photographique in 17x22. I am curious if I can scale things up by using a long trailing edge that will later serve a purpose when binding a book.
I'll be saving about $5.00 on the larger sheet, but I'll be printing on cellulose paper instead of 100% cotton rag.
My goal is if I can get a 13x19.5 offset for binding a landscape book. With the Faberryman I'm able to print 11 inches wide for my image size, so it hopefull is not too big a jump. The question I need to resolve is how much trailing tail do I need to avoid head strikes.
Cal
I'll be sharing some of this work with a friend at B&H. Hope I have no problem smuggling my prints past the baggage check.
I think I will be graduating to Canson Baryta Photographique in 17x22. I am curious if I can scale things up by using a long trailing edge that will later serve a purpose when binding a book.
I'll be saving about $5.00 on the larger sheet, but I'll be printing on cellulose paper instead of 100% cotton rag.
My goal is if I can get a 13x19.5 offset for binding a landscape book. With the Faberryman I'm able to print 11 inches wide for my image size, so it hopefull is not too big a jump. The question I need to resolve is how much trailing tail do I need to avoid head strikes.
Cal
walkerblackwell
Newbie
Just FYI. You will want to look very closely at how the GCO works on the white of Canson Baryta. I'm not over-joyed by how canson baryta works. A few batches of this paper don't play well with GCO (nor Hahnemuhle Photo Silk which is essentially the same paper). This is the one paper Canson doesn't actually mill or coat which is part of the reason why it went to Epson as their legacy baryta but also why they came out with Prestige.
I've created a lew of profiles that are called "NWGCO" that do not print GCO into the white of the paper. Pulling you highlights down to 1% or 2% tone will keep GCO throughout the image but not into the white borders.
This may be a way to forgo any issues in the white of canson baryta when their batches shift (generally I saw this only on their ROLL batches but I think it's unstable.)
best,
Walker
I do not see any issue on any other paper.
I've created a lew of profiles that are called "NWGCO" that do not print GCO into the white of the paper. Pulling you highlights down to 1% or 2% tone will keep GCO throughout the image but not into the white borders.
This may be a way to forgo any issues in the white of canson baryta when their batches shift (generally I saw this only on their ROLL batches but I think it's unstable.)
best,
Walker
I do not see any issue on any other paper.
Last edited:
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
So it has been a week and I need to take the "Q" train to B&H and get my weekly fix of paper. I decided to go Canson Baryta Photographique in 17x22 to print for expanded detail, not knowing of how to deal with the extended trailing margin.
The price point with the Canson Baryta Photographique is at $94.00, I save $5.00, and get 17x22 over 13x19 Canson Platine Fibre Rag. The Platine is the 100% rag paper that feels so nice in the hands, but the Baryta is smoother, brighter (trace amounts of OBA's), and is buffered cellulose.
I carry a large archival museum box of prints to show my pals in the used department at B&H, and Pedro at the door told me to go right in, so my concerns about having to check in my parcel were unfounded. I felt mighty cool.
When I opened the box of prints, Brent respectively just looked at the top print. My guess is that he did not want to handle or damage the prints knowing that they were inkjet prints, so then I wet my finger with my spit and I wipe the surface of the print and then squeege the moisture across the print with the palm of my hand. "It is O.K. to pick up the prints and handle them as if they were wet prints," I said. Anyways the demo drew lots of attention and a flash mob began to happen.
What universally happened is that everyone was kinda blown away. The small prints had punchy contrast and everyone loved the black-black, but the larger prints were favored for the expanded tonality and additional fine detail. I further explained how the detail from my Monochrom holds up and expands even further in 20x30 prints.
The largest prints were 13x19 almost full sheet size except for 1/4 inch borders. Everyone like the PP print of the white Montreal Dog over the K7 print. The image had a more 3-D rendering and depth, but I had to point out that the dog's right ear displayed slightly higher resolution in the highlights on the K7 print. Perhaps in a larger print this tiny/subtle difference might get amplified, but in comparing 13x19's the difference requires very-very careful study to notice. Basically I had to point it out.
I was asked if nightshooting is what I do, and I revealed I chose the night shots for testing purposes because I wanted to explore the blacks and shadow details. I explained the Montreal Dog shot as one of those shots of reflections in plate glass windows that look so good in a viewfinder that are so difficult to render in a print, and the Highline car/food vender shot was to render the dusky orange golden hour on the West Side of Madhattan with split tone and strong contrast. I was also asked if the night shots were taken with a tripod because of the detailed rendering. (Monochrom 800 ISO, Nikkor 35/1.8 LTM single coated retro glass).
So anyways I deeply impressed a group of guys who have trained eyes with my early printing that have been just experiments over the past 10 -12 days.
Last night I printed some 12x18's. I used a paper size of 17x20 allowing for an extended trailing margin to avoid those dreaded head strikes. This seems to be the size where tonality and fine detail gets revealed. I would say that this is kinda where you need to print if you are shooting a Monochrom. Smaller prints seem to be compressed.
It seems that I am ahead of schedule as far as printing pages for a larger book. It seems like I am assembling prints that use 12x18 image size for a 17x22 inch book.
One image I printed last night is an almost black on black print. I thought this would be a difficult print to print due to ink load. Last summer there was this high rise building that had a decorative canvas shrouding perhaps a 25 or 30 story building on 57th Street. The canvas depicts a building and hides the building being renovated behind the canvas, and it seems drawn over scalfolding. Now imaging this image at night. Anyways it appears as an abstraction.
In the 12x18 inch print there appears to be fine Arcros like grain (Monochrom 800 ISO) in the blacks, but not in the highlights. The sky is black, like intense black, vividly black, anyways no real way to describe it except you have not seen black like this. There is warmth from the splitone, and a neutral grey that adds depth. This print is "stunning."
Anyways I still reserve judgement and need to compare even larger K7 and PP prints. I do know that I will likely dilute my shade 3 further in my K7 splitone to more closely resemble the results I get with PP. I will mix my shade 3 to be 33% Selenium instead of 25% to tone down the warmth further and make the midrange have a broader "neutral" spread between shades 3 and 4. Perhaps what I'm seeing in PP is the darkest black available, cool highlights, neutral mids, and warm shadows. Basically a broader midrage due to a neutral difference between the cool highlights and warm shadows.
The split tone really is four way and I think that a revised K7 with increased dilution in shade three will reveal a more neutral midrange that perhaps is a little broader to add yet another layer of distinction and detail that draws the eye in. Basically yet another nuance.
IMHO Piezography kinda requires at least a 13x19 sized print, otherwise you don't have the image size to exploit the distinctions and advantages. It seems a 3880 is kinda limited, and from experience owning a 3880 that one will always wish for a larger printer. I'm so glad I have a 7800.
Cal
The price point with the Canson Baryta Photographique is at $94.00, I save $5.00, and get 17x22 over 13x19 Canson Platine Fibre Rag. The Platine is the 100% rag paper that feels so nice in the hands, but the Baryta is smoother, brighter (trace amounts of OBA's), and is buffered cellulose.
I carry a large archival museum box of prints to show my pals in the used department at B&H, and Pedro at the door told me to go right in, so my concerns about having to check in my parcel were unfounded. I felt mighty cool.
When I opened the box of prints, Brent respectively just looked at the top print. My guess is that he did not want to handle or damage the prints knowing that they were inkjet prints, so then I wet my finger with my spit and I wipe the surface of the print and then squeege the moisture across the print with the palm of my hand. "It is O.K. to pick up the prints and handle them as if they were wet prints," I said. Anyways the demo drew lots of attention and a flash mob began to happen.
What universally happened is that everyone was kinda blown away. The small prints had punchy contrast and everyone loved the black-black, but the larger prints were favored for the expanded tonality and additional fine detail. I further explained how the detail from my Monochrom holds up and expands even further in 20x30 prints.
The largest prints were 13x19 almost full sheet size except for 1/4 inch borders. Everyone like the PP print of the white Montreal Dog over the K7 print. The image had a more 3-D rendering and depth, but I had to point out that the dog's right ear displayed slightly higher resolution in the highlights on the K7 print. Perhaps in a larger print this tiny/subtle difference might get amplified, but in comparing 13x19's the difference requires very-very careful study to notice. Basically I had to point it out.
I was asked if nightshooting is what I do, and I revealed I chose the night shots for testing purposes because I wanted to explore the blacks and shadow details. I explained the Montreal Dog shot as one of those shots of reflections in plate glass windows that look so good in a viewfinder that are so difficult to render in a print, and the Highline car/food vender shot was to render the dusky orange golden hour on the West Side of Madhattan with split tone and strong contrast. I was also asked if the night shots were taken with a tripod because of the detailed rendering. (Monochrom 800 ISO, Nikkor 35/1.8 LTM single coated retro glass).
So anyways I deeply impressed a group of guys who have trained eyes with my early printing that have been just experiments over the past 10 -12 days.
Last night I printed some 12x18's. I used a paper size of 17x20 allowing for an extended trailing margin to avoid those dreaded head strikes. This seems to be the size where tonality and fine detail gets revealed. I would say that this is kinda where you need to print if you are shooting a Monochrom. Smaller prints seem to be compressed.
It seems that I am ahead of schedule as far as printing pages for a larger book. It seems like I am assembling prints that use 12x18 image size for a 17x22 inch book.
One image I printed last night is an almost black on black print. I thought this would be a difficult print to print due to ink load. Last summer there was this high rise building that had a decorative canvas shrouding perhaps a 25 or 30 story building on 57th Street. The canvas depicts a building and hides the building being renovated behind the canvas, and it seems drawn over scalfolding. Now imaging this image at night. Anyways it appears as an abstraction.
In the 12x18 inch print there appears to be fine Arcros like grain (Monochrom 800 ISO) in the blacks, but not in the highlights. The sky is black, like intense black, vividly black, anyways no real way to describe it except you have not seen black like this. There is warmth from the splitone, and a neutral grey that adds depth. This print is "stunning."
Anyways I still reserve judgement and need to compare even larger K7 and PP prints. I do know that I will likely dilute my shade 3 further in my K7 splitone to more closely resemble the results I get with PP. I will mix my shade 3 to be 33% Selenium instead of 25% to tone down the warmth further and make the midrange have a broader "neutral" spread between shades 3 and 4. Perhaps what I'm seeing in PP is the darkest black available, cool highlights, neutral mids, and warm shadows. Basically a broader midrage due to a neutral difference between the cool highlights and warm shadows.
The split tone really is four way and I think that a revised K7 with increased dilution in shade three will reveal a more neutral midrange that perhaps is a little broader to add yet another layer of distinction and detail that draws the eye in. Basically yet another nuance.
IMHO Piezography kinda requires at least a 13x19 sized print, otherwise you don't have the image size to exploit the distinctions and advantages. It seems a 3880 is kinda limited, and from experience owning a 3880 that one will always wish for a larger printer. I'm so glad I have a 7800.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Walker,
Again thanks so much for being my mentor. Lowering the overprinting in the margins also allows me to print my image size larger, saves GCO, and allows me some flexibility in page layout using the workaround you provided to avoid Pizza Wheeling.
I'll be sure to download "NWGCO" this weekend. I 'll start a thread on the PPE Forum to get a link started.
I'm looking forward to the availability of "Prestige." From Scott's numbers and testing on the Private PP Forum, I think the dark black that Scott measured in his test, makes Prestige seem to have a whiter-white.
I spoke with Gil at B&H yesterday. Gil is the paper expert at B&H, and I inquired about the delay with Prestige availability. Gil mentioned a change over in ownership as the cause.
I am currently using the Canson Baryta because of price and availability. The Prestige is even more expensive than the Platine Fibre Rag. The Prestige seems to have that look as well as the feel at 340 GSM.
Thanks again for stopping in.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
BTW for you lurkers on this thread. This Sunday is the January NYC Meet-Up. I'll be bringing a box of prints to show some of the testing, and I should have a few more 12x18's that will be book pages. I also have a small mock-up of this tiny book I made from slides that I will use to design my coffee table books.
1:00 PM Lorelie's on Rivington, by the New ICP on the Bowelry.
The prints speak for themselves.
I'll be bringing my Otte Lite that produces D-5000 (daylight). Come see my famous spit on my print demo. LOL. (Don't do this to non Piezography Glossy prints) LOL.
Cal
1:00 PM Lorelie's on Rivington, by the New ICP on the Bowelry.
The prints speak for themselves.
I'll be bringing my Otte Lite that produces D-5000 (daylight). Come see my famous spit on my print demo. LOL. (Don't do this to non Piezography Glossy prints) LOL.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
UPDATE: I got a PM from Walker. It seems when I downloaded the new curves that I already have the "NWGCO" curves already from my initial download. I will try them tonight.
The level of support I am getting is so great. It is also great to be surrounded by all these DN guys that are so advanced in these private forums. I only lurk, but a rising tide raises all ships. Anyways I kinda have a private mentor, and the response is always quick.
Know that my friend Scott from PPE also does DN. It seems somehow I did a Calzone thing and kinda cornered the market on Canson Prestige Barata. My friend Robert Rodriguez gave me a sample pack at PhotoPlusExpo, and Robert also gifted a sample pack of Prestige to my friend Joe, but somehow I ended up with both sample packs before the day was over. LOL.
Then I learned that Prestige is not available, basically it is backordered all over the planet, and I kinda have the Prestige market kinda cornered. So I send off Joe's sample pack to Scott who quantified the tonal response of this paper. A mucho deeper black.
I had started a thread on this private forum (PPE only) comparing Canson Baryta Photographique against the Prestige Baryta using the Baryta Photographic curves. Interesting to note that the blacker black seems to make the paper white seem whiter. Looking for extended contrast or long tonal range? Perhaps this is a good paper for you. The only downsides are: trace OBA's, no availability, and price. The Prestige costs more than my 100% cotton rag Platine, even though it is a blend of cellulose and cotton.
Anyways I have two 8 1/2x11's to show how this new paper looks like. Also it is very heavy at 340 gsm.
Cal
The level of support I am getting is so great. It is also great to be surrounded by all these DN guys that are so advanced in these private forums. I only lurk, but a rising tide raises all ships. Anyways I kinda have a private mentor, and the response is always quick.
Know that my friend Scott from PPE also does DN. It seems somehow I did a Calzone thing and kinda cornered the market on Canson Prestige Barata. My friend Robert Rodriguez gave me a sample pack at PhotoPlusExpo, and Robert also gifted a sample pack of Prestige to my friend Joe, but somehow I ended up with both sample packs before the day was over. LOL.
Then I learned that Prestige is not available, basically it is backordered all over the planet, and I kinda have the Prestige market kinda cornered. So I send off Joe's sample pack to Scott who quantified the tonal response of this paper. A mucho deeper black.
I had started a thread on this private forum (PPE only) comparing Canson Baryta Photographique against the Prestige Baryta using the Baryta Photographic curves. Interesting to note that the blacker black seems to make the paper white seem whiter. Looking for extended contrast or long tonal range? Perhaps this is a good paper for you. The only downsides are: trace OBA's, no availability, and price. The Prestige costs more than my 100% cotton rag Platine, even though it is a blend of cellulose and cotton.
Anyways I have two 8 1/2x11's to show how this new paper looks like. Also it is very heavy at 340 gsm.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
So I ended up making mucho prints last night. The box of 25 sheets of 17x22 is over half gone already.
The book now looks to be a 17x22 mock-up, and I will likely upgrade to the Canson Platine Fibre Rag for the big book when I put the 7800 online.
I think I can recreate the look of PP in K7 by extending the neutral transition by diluting shade 3 further. I have a lot of K7 ink stockpiled that I initially will use, so there will be some crazy overlap of running and maintaining two printers at the same time. I'll learn what it is like to have two inksets available at the same time.
I have a few more images I want to print for my book before the Sunday NYC Meet-Up. Pretty much will be showing some new capabilities and progress.
Cal
The book now looks to be a 17x22 mock-up, and I will likely upgrade to the Canson Platine Fibre Rag for the big book when I put the 7800 online.
I think I can recreate the look of PP in K7 by extending the neutral transition by diluting shade 3 further. I have a lot of K7 ink stockpiled that I initially will use, so there will be some crazy overlap of running and maintaining two printers at the same time. I'll learn what it is like to have two inksets available at the same time.
I have a few more images I want to print for my book before the Sunday NYC Meet-Up. Pretty much will be showing some new capabilities and progress.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
So it has been just over two weeks of printing, and Saturday I pulled some K7 prints I had made to compare with PP prints I made from the same tiffs. The K7 has smoother highlights, but PP has advanced/enhanced shadows.
The difference in the highlights is very slight and perhaps is only noticible if I tell you or if you have a highly trained eye. The difference in the shadows in PP is dramatic due to a more intense black (darkest available) intensified by a wider dynamic range compounded by using smoother baryta coated papers that are brighter (trace amounts of OBA's).
Anyways PP loves the smoother brighter papers and Canson Baryta Presige seems ideal for that extra long tonal range because it prints a darker black than the Canson Baryta Photographique. I can't wait till it becomes readily available.
With less contrast and dynamic range, K7 seems to emphisize a broader midrange, and ideally one should have both K7 and PP to be able to print both depending on image tonality. Still no clear winner, and I love both inksets. What I learned from PP is that a broader neutral midrange is an added nuance that adds a lot of depth.
Looking forward to diluting my shade 3 further to extend that neutral midrange to tone down the warmth a bit further into the shadows. It seems the Canson Papers (Platine, Photographique, and Prestige) all have inherent warmth so there is an abundance that needs to be controlled and toned down in a subtractive manner.
So here is the splitone experience for those not familiar: I use a D-5000 (daylight) Ott Lite to judge my prints and a tungstan lamp. In D-5000 my prints look kinda neutral, but under tungstan the warmth emerges and gets exaggerated. In mixed light there is a rich blending. The trick is to make a print that looks great in all three lighting conditions. Of course I tend to favor daylight.
In use the basic settings in Print Tool (Mac) pretty much once set will work on all my Canson papers with minor tweaking. This is the blending of 3 curves (cool, neutral, and warm) but some prints rich in shadows detail with PP I can easily tone down the warmth in Print Tool so that under incandescent light the warmth is not overdone. Pretty much this is reducing brown in the shadows.
So why the bother, and why would one use splitone? When done right a lot more detail gets teased out of a print. I'm talking very fine detail here. Another reason is for emphisis as well as nuance. Also know that a print seems to jump off the page more and appears to be more 3-D.
So I have 4-5 sheets of 17x22 Baryta Photographic left, and I have 5 prints that I think have been optimized. Another trip to B&H later this week, but this time I will bulk up a bit on the paper.
At the NYC Meet-Up one response was "Why would someone want to wet print anymore?"
Another response was "All the prints look good, and the minor differences is just being obsessive." I brought a selection to show and compare. There was K7 verses PP, and different papers.
Anyways not all my prints I would consider finished, the changes are subtle, but for some the best print is yet to come.
Cal
The difference in the highlights is very slight and perhaps is only noticible if I tell you or if you have a highly trained eye. The difference in the shadows in PP is dramatic due to a more intense black (darkest available) intensified by a wider dynamic range compounded by using smoother baryta coated papers that are brighter (trace amounts of OBA's).
Anyways PP loves the smoother brighter papers and Canson Baryta Presige seems ideal for that extra long tonal range because it prints a darker black than the Canson Baryta Photographique. I can't wait till it becomes readily available.
With less contrast and dynamic range, K7 seems to emphisize a broader midrange, and ideally one should have both K7 and PP to be able to print both depending on image tonality. Still no clear winner, and I love both inksets. What I learned from PP is that a broader neutral midrange is an added nuance that adds a lot of depth.
Looking forward to diluting my shade 3 further to extend that neutral midrange to tone down the warmth a bit further into the shadows. It seems the Canson Papers (Platine, Photographique, and Prestige) all have inherent warmth so there is an abundance that needs to be controlled and toned down in a subtractive manner.
So here is the splitone experience for those not familiar: I use a D-5000 (daylight) Ott Lite to judge my prints and a tungstan lamp. In D-5000 my prints look kinda neutral, but under tungstan the warmth emerges and gets exaggerated. In mixed light there is a rich blending. The trick is to make a print that looks great in all three lighting conditions. Of course I tend to favor daylight.
In use the basic settings in Print Tool (Mac) pretty much once set will work on all my Canson papers with minor tweaking. This is the blending of 3 curves (cool, neutral, and warm) but some prints rich in shadows detail with PP I can easily tone down the warmth in Print Tool so that under incandescent light the warmth is not overdone. Pretty much this is reducing brown in the shadows.
So why the bother, and why would one use splitone? When done right a lot more detail gets teased out of a print. I'm talking very fine detail here. Another reason is for emphisis as well as nuance. Also know that a print seems to jump off the page more and appears to be more 3-D.
So I have 4-5 sheets of 17x22 Baryta Photographic left, and I have 5 prints that I think have been optimized. Another trip to B&H later this week, but this time I will bulk up a bit on the paper.
At the NYC Meet-Up one response was "Why would someone want to wet print anymore?"
Another response was "All the prints look good, and the minor differences is just being obsessive." I brought a selection to show and compare. There was K7 verses PP, and different papers.
Anyways not all my prints I would consider finished, the changes are subtle, but for some the best print is yet to come.
Cal
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
So I'm running with the ball now. Last night made three prints of three different images I have printed before, and I made each one the best print I ever made of the image.
I was able to dial in the splitone for not only creative effect, but also to enhance the image. In one shot that is near the Highline near dusk I utilized the warmth to enhance and express the low west coming light to great effect.
In another shot the darkened interior displays warmth that frames a man's face that bathes in late afternoon outdoor light as he peers into the street so the mixed lighting is captured and optimized for both the interior and exterior.
Then there is this other mixed lighting shot from inside the AOL Time Warner skyscraper atrium looking out to Columbus Circle and Central Park South. I somehow captured polarized lighting and was able to mirror image the outside view of Columbus Circle that is bookmatched to a large expanse of glass windows. The effect is that cabs look like they are heading towards each other in Columbus Circle. Anyways the difference in contrast and exposure due to losses in the reflected image verses the direct image is worked out in a gentile subtle difference in the tonal rendering via the splitone.
Anyways three mucho great prints. I only have 2 sheets left of last week's pack of 25 17x22's, so today after work is yet another B&H run for paper. I should be able to bulk up on some paper at this point. I have a contact with the biggest Canson dealer in N.J. PM me if you want in.
So I am very pleased with my 3880 using the Faberryman Workaround. Seems ideal for making pages that will be assembled into a workbook to document my images and settings. The print quality and IQ is supreme.
Cal
I was able to dial in the splitone for not only creative effect, but also to enhance the image. In one shot that is near the Highline near dusk I utilized the warmth to enhance and express the low west coming light to great effect.
In another shot the darkened interior displays warmth that frames a man's face that bathes in late afternoon outdoor light as he peers into the street so the mixed lighting is captured and optimized for both the interior and exterior.
Then there is this other mixed lighting shot from inside the AOL Time Warner skyscraper atrium looking out to Columbus Circle and Central Park South. I somehow captured polarized lighting and was able to mirror image the outside view of Columbus Circle that is bookmatched to a large expanse of glass windows. The effect is that cabs look like they are heading towards each other in Columbus Circle. Anyways the difference in contrast and exposure due to losses in the reflected image verses the direct image is worked out in a gentile subtle difference in the tonal rendering via the splitone.
Anyways three mucho great prints. I only have 2 sheets left of last week's pack of 25 17x22's, so today after work is yet another B&H run for paper. I should be able to bulk up on some paper at this point. I have a contact with the biggest Canson dealer in N.J. PM me if you want in.
So I am very pleased with my 3880 using the Faberryman Workaround. Seems ideal for making pages that will be assembled into a workbook to document my images and settings. The print quality and IQ is supreme.
Cal
jscottyk
Newbie
A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.
A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.
Hello All,
Long time lurker, first time poster here at rangefinderforum. Cal mentioned a review of two Canson papers that I posted over at the PiezographyPro forum. I thought it might be helpful here, so I am cross-posting.
Here goes.
A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.
Here’s what we know about the Baryta Photographique from the Canson website; “very low” OBA, alpha cellulose, 310 gsm.
And the Baryta Prestige from the Canson website; “very low” OBA, alpha cellulose and cotton, 340gsm.
Both papers were re-linearized on my 3880 starting with the Baryta Photographique curve and a 129-step target with an i1 Pro and Colorport.
The following measurements were made with the i1 Pro and QuickRead.
Baryta Photographique
DMax – 2.38
DMin – V.04, C.04, M.05, Y.05
Baryta Prestige
DMax – 2.47
DMin – V.04, C.04, M.04, Y.05
Now for the subject stuff. To my eye, both papers are very very similar. The two main apparent differences are the paper white and surface texture. For me the Baryta Photographique feels a bit more textured than the Baryta Prestige. I realize this is the opposite of what Cal experienced but this is probably just our subjective perceptions. Neither is heavy textured. The Prestige just looks a bit smoother.
The Baryta Photographique also feels a tiny bit warmer in the paper white. I think the measurements confirm this with the DMin numbers. Visually, I don’t notice the difference in DMax when looking at the same image printed on both papers. When I place the two calibration targets side by side, I notice the difference. Regardless, 2.38 is amazing and with that level of black I would not let DMax be a deciding factor when trying to decide between which to use for a print.
Finally, a third difference I noticed by feel. The alpha cellulose and cotton mix of Baryta Prestige is a bit stiffer in the hand and also feels different on the back of the print. I’m a paper-nut and I notice this stuff when handling fine prints. I’m not sure which I like better at the moment; just noticed the difference.
J. Scott King
Austin, Texas
A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.
Hello All,
Long time lurker, first time poster here at rangefinderforum. Cal mentioned a review of two Canson papers that I posted over at the PiezographyPro forum. I thought it might be helpful here, so I am cross-posting.
Here goes.
A quick report comparing Canson Baryta Photographique and Canson Baryta Prestige.
Here’s what we know about the Baryta Photographique from the Canson website; “very low” OBA, alpha cellulose, 310 gsm.
And the Baryta Prestige from the Canson website; “very low” OBA, alpha cellulose and cotton, 340gsm.
Both papers were re-linearized on my 3880 starting with the Baryta Photographique curve and a 129-step target with an i1 Pro and Colorport.
The following measurements were made with the i1 Pro and QuickRead.
Baryta Photographique
DMax – 2.38
DMin – V.04, C.04, M.05, Y.05
Baryta Prestige
DMax – 2.47
DMin – V.04, C.04, M.04, Y.05
Now for the subject stuff. To my eye, both papers are very very similar. The two main apparent differences are the paper white and surface texture. For me the Baryta Photographique feels a bit more textured than the Baryta Prestige. I realize this is the opposite of what Cal experienced but this is probably just our subjective perceptions. Neither is heavy textured. The Prestige just looks a bit smoother.
The Baryta Photographique also feels a tiny bit warmer in the paper white. I think the measurements confirm this with the DMin numbers. Visually, I don’t notice the difference in DMax when looking at the same image printed on both papers. When I place the two calibration targets side by side, I notice the difference. Regardless, 2.38 is amazing and with that level of black I would not let DMax be a deciding factor when trying to decide between which to use for a print.
Finally, a third difference I noticed by feel. The alpha cellulose and cotton mix of Baryta Prestige is a bit stiffer in the hand and also feels different on the back of the print. I’m a paper-nut and I notice this stuff when handling fine prints. I’m not sure which I like better at the moment; just noticed the difference.
J. Scott King
Austin, Texas
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
Scott,
Thanks for sharing this.
I can't wait till the Canson Prestige becomes readily available. I think of Prestige like being like the Baryta Photographique, but on steroids due to the blacker black and the apparent whiter white.
Also I forgot to mention that Robert Rodriguez stated to me that the gain of the Prestige is such that it has a low memory for the curling that happens with roll paper. Should be really great for large prints.
Cal
Thanks for sharing this.
I can't wait till the Canson Prestige becomes readily available. I think of Prestige like being like the Baryta Photographique, but on steroids due to the blacker black and the apparent whiter white.
Also I forgot to mention that Robert Rodriguez stated to me that the gain of the Prestige is such that it has a low memory for the curling that happens with roll paper. Should be really great for large prints.
Cal