Pixii PORN

[Godfrey]

I've been in retail a long time..
I dont think they can make it on that..
But if they eliminate the middleman..or just give them 10%..15%..maybe..

I worked for a hardgoods manufacturer for a long time... 😀

 

[Huss]

The Japanese manufacturers were pumping out cheap mechanical fixed lens cameras. And really, they weren't that cheap. A Konica S3 listed at $199 in 1973, that is $1161 in todays money.

Not sure the USSR cameras are comparable as I really don't know how those companies operated. Was profit a consideration?

Shawn

Konica C35 was 45 GBP in 1970, which is about 280 GBP today. $350.

 

[Godfrey]

I never said I can do it, I'm not a camera mfg.
But camera mfgs have done it, as can be clearly seen.

Zorki, Fed, Minolta, Olympus, Canon, Konica, Agfa etc etc for very little money.

So, if you think it is thousands of dollars to make a mechanical rf, perhaps you should check out a Fed 2. Or Olympus RC. Or Konica 35. Or Zorki 4.

All the engineering and design has already been done by others years ago. They are not re-inventing the wheel. Actually the only one that has done that is Fuji with it's awesome hybrid VF, but that is not a real RF.
...

Whether the engineering and design work was done by others before means nothing when you're starting up a manufacturing business and need to design a manufacturing process, unless you find someone producing the parts you need and you simply buy them. Even then, you still have to design how they are incorporated into the product and build that manufacturing infrastructure, which can be arbitrarily complex.

I didn't say each unit costs "thousands" by the way. I estimate the COM for each RF unit is a few hundred dollars. Designing the components and manufacturing process, however, costs likely many thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars. And that's on the small budget of a startup company. A big company, like an Agfa or Minolta, probably spends more on design and development to make the final product cost less at MSRP.

This is the nature of hard goods manufacturing.

The Fuji viewfinder isn't an opto-mechanical rangefinder at all. It's an electronic imaging system in toto, with an optical viewfinder that it's incorporated into.

G

 

[Huss]

The Fuji viewfinder isn't an opto-mechanical rangefinder at all. It's an electronic imaging system in toto, with an optical viewfinder that it's incorporated into.

G

Yes, I mentioned that.

 

[agentlossing]

More salacious photos of the hardware, please! I'm not one of the folks who thinks the camera looks ugly, I've liked the design cues from the start.

 

[shawn]

Konica C35 was 45 GBP in 1970, which is about 280 GBP today. $350.

According to the Bank of England, 45 GBP in 1970 is about 701 GBP in 2019.

The Historical UK inflation calculator says 706.50 GBP for 1970 to 2018.

Shawn

 

[Darthfeeble]

Thinking about pricing of the PIXII a little more, didn't the Epson RD1 sell for about $2,500 new in the 2005–2009 time frame? The 6MP sensor in the RD1 was also pretty dated by the time that camera came out. (Not that I'm badmouthing it, I still use and enjoy a camera with a similar 6MP CCD sensor to this day.)


Adjuster for inflation, pricing of the PIXII is probable pretty close to what the RD1 sold for when new.

Epson tried $3k at first and couldn't get it done, they shrunk the price until it hit $2k and still didn't make a major dent in the market. This when they were the only game in town! My experience in retail tells me that a business will not succeed unless it can make a 40% profit over all, exceptions of course like groceries who have a huge volume. If just the cost of the sensor is even a thousand dollars, it's easy to see that the price for the total package is actually reasonable.

 

[Emile de Leon]

The Fuji viewfinder isn't an opto-mechanical rangefinder at all. It's an electronic imaging system in toto, with an optical viewfinder that it's incorporated into.

I'm talkin about all the film folders Fuji made in the past..not the current stuff..


I think its just a matter of time..before the Chinese jump all over this..as they did to LF/ULF..15 years ago..and Leica currently..
And produce rangefinders w/M and/or L mount..for realistic prices...
..if they arent planning it already..
They are already producing excellent vintage Leica lenses..
Natural next step..cam to go w/it..

 

[Godfrey]

I'm talkin about all the film folders Fuji made in the past..not the current stuff..


I think its just a matter of time..before the Chinese jump all over this..as they did to LF/ULF..15 years ago..and Leica currently..
And produce rangefinders w/M and/or L mount..for realistic prices...
..if they arent planning it already..
They are already producing excellent vintage Leica lenses..
Natural next step..cam to go w/it..

I have a Fujifilm GS645S Wide 60 with one of their rangefinders. It is at best passable by comparison to any Leica rangefinder, and certainly wouldn't live up to Stephen's claim that the Pixii rangefinder is as good as a Leica rangefinder. The one in my Voigtländer Bessa III 6x7 camera camera was a little better, but still not Leica M quality, and that was a $2000 film camera.

Why would "the Chinese" want to "jump all over this"? The market for such a camera is miniscule, there's very little profit in it beyond a rather small number of units built by a specialty manufacturer, and building high precision analog opto-mechanical devices doesn't suit the high volume production model that typical Chinese manufacturing do most profitably.

G

 

[Emile de Leon]

Why would "the Chinese" want to "jump all over this"?

They jumped all over LF & ULF..back in the day..
Talk about a miniscule market..

As well as the recent LLL8 lens..
Tiny market too..
Sold out btw...
There is a market for this..a cheaper rangefinder..than 8K...

And truthfully..when they decide to do this..make a decent rangefinder to go with that LLL8E..Leica M will be in real trouble..
Like the LF/ULF camera companies were in the early 2000's..
Leica is aware of this I'm sure..
Or they oughta be..

 

[jawarden]

Why would "the Chinese" want to "jump all over this"? .... and building high precision analog opto-mechanical devices doesn't suit the high volume production model that typical Chinese manufacturing do most profitably.

G

The thing that's so impressive about design and manufacturing in China is that they can do both high volume and precision. They're not mutually exclusive. And I agree that there could be a market here, after this camera tests the waters.

 

[xayraa33]

The thing that's so impressive about design and manufacturing in China is that they can do both high volume and precision. They're not mutually exclusive. And I agree that there could be a market here, after this camera tests the waters.

Chinese manufacturers can build anything to the cost that anyone orders and is willing to pay for.

For example in electric guitars one can order a budget guitar that retails for 85 USD in the USA or one that sells for 2500 USD and is as well made or better made than primo well established US made brands.

 

[Emile de Leon]

A guitarist friend of mine..I road gigged with him back in the day..
Sold his 1960's Strat for a ton of bread recently..the guitar he always gigged on..
For a cheap Chinese knockoff..
He said the Chinese guitar was better in every way.

 

[xayraa33]

A guitarist friend of mine..I road gigged with him back in the day..
Sold his 1960's Strat for a ton of bread recently..the guitar he always gigged on..
For a cheap Chinese knockoff..
He said the Chinese guitar was better in every way.

That vintage guitar thing is a bit of a scam....as if every guitar that came from American guitar factories in the 1950s and 1960s was the ultimate in quality and sound..in reality just like today you got a few great ones and a few dogs and many middle of the road mediocre ones.

Check out Darrell Braun's videos, where he checks out a primo 1200 USD well made Chinese strat copy called " Shijie" and just very recently he reviewed a super low budget Chinese Telecaster copy that retails for 85 USD in the USA with free shipping.

 

[jsrockit]

I wonder what the repair process is like...

 

[olakiril]

I wonder what the repair process is like...

For the Pixii, I wonder as well.

For the chinese guitars, for 85$ you buy another one 🙂

 

[jsrockit]

For the Pixii, I wonder as well.

For the chinese guitars, for 85$ you buy another one 🙂

I’m afraid that might be for the Pixii as well! (Jokes, I hope)

 

[Out to Lunch]

Pixii jokes aside....I am curious about this new camera. This said, the Pixii 'teaser' campaign is a disaster. It started late-2018! Really? In the meantime, my M-E failed, I can't get it fixed, and I have all these nice M-mount lenses.

 

[Archlich]

I think its just a matter of time..before the Chinese jump all over this..as they did to LF/ULF..15 years ago..and Leica currently..
And produce rangefinders w/M and/or L mount..for realistic prices...
..if they arent planning it already..
They are already producing excellent vintage Leica lenses..
Natural next step..cam to go w/it..

I don't think any established Chinese makers would be keen in making such a high stake and niche product like the PIXII, nor do they currently have the expertise in making digital rangefinders which are hugely complex and would at least require some experience by making them as an OEM - and there hadn't been any.

However it is very feasible for cottage makers like LLL to make an analog M camera with metering or even AE in limited quantities. That market is indeed open and I believe Chinese manufacturing at the moment is up to the task. They may possibly be on that already.

This is a PIXII thread after all...I digress.

 

[filmtwit]

A for effort here. But a used m240 costs less and does more.