Planning for M8

[etrigan63]

While I use and enjoy my Canon 1D Mk2 for certain work that I do, I have found myself wanting an M8 for travel and trade shows. My gear choices for this would be:

1. Leica M8 in Black
2. Tim Isaac's Thumbs Up Model 3 with hot shoe extender
3. Leica Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm f/4 -- walkabout lens ***
4. Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 -- lens for lowlight ***
5. Small flash unit -- for those situations where needed ***
6. Small camera bag to hold it all -- what brand? ***

The items maked with a *** are what I am scratching my head about. I hope to have the funding for all this by late Q3 but need to plan for it now. Any and all opinions are appreciated.

In parting, I offer this sample of my work, done with my Canon 1DMk 2:

"Noir Boardwalk" - Night shot of Disney's Boardwalk Resort with the Yacht Club Lighthouse in the foreground.

Shot RAW, developed and converted to B&W with Bibble Pro 4.9.8.

http://photos.echenique.com

 

[etrigan63]

Perhaps I was unclear in my first post: the items marked with '***' are questions I have regarding equipment. Are those the best choices for my intended purposes (travel and trade shows)? What do you, the Leica M users (especially M8 owners), recommend I get?

Should I use CV or Zeiss lenses instead (saving me lots of $$$)? If so which ones and where is the best place to buy them? Cameraquest has a modified CV 35mm Nokton f/1.2 that greatly interests me (for $819) can anyone comment on this lens and point me to some sample photos/reviews? M8 images preferably.

As this will be a sizable investment in equipment, I am trying to plan this out. I live in Miami and there no longer are Leica dealers down here (Phil's Camera closed its doors a couple of years ago) for me to check out the gear.

 

[furcafe]

It might be easier to answer your questions if you gave us more background, e.g., are you already experienced w/Leica M &/or RF gear?, what exactly do you mean by "travel & trade show" shooting?, are you now using the 1D Mk2 for that purpose & if so, what focal lengths do you favor?

While I use and enjoy my Canon 1D Mk2 for certain work that I do, I have found myself wanting an M8 for travel and trade shows. My gear choices for this would be:

1. Leica M8 in Black
2. Tim Isaac's Thumbs Up Model 3 with hot shoe extender
3. Leica Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm f/4 -- walkabout lens ***
4. Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 -- lens for lowlight ***
5. Small flash unit -- for those situations where needed ***
6. Small camera bag to hold it all -- what brand? ***

The items maked with a *** are what I am scratching my head about. I hope to have the funding for all this by late Q3 but need to plan for it now. Any and all opinions are appreciated.

 

[Ben Z]

I live in Miami and there no longer are Leica dealers down here (Phil's Camera closed its doors a couple of years ago) for me to check out the gear.

If it's of any help, Dale Labs in Hollywood is a Leica dealer, and the manager David Farkas is a great guy and active with promoting Leica product. You might give him a call and inquire what stuff he has on hand for a demo.

 

[jaapv]

If you mean you have no experience with rangefinders and are wondering if it is for you, you could pick up a user M3 or similar, play around with it for a while and sell it for about the same price you paid for it. That will help you decide.

 

[Olsen]

I will strongly advice you to buy 'the widest & fastest' you can find for the M8. I have a Tri Elmar, which is a excellent lense, but it is not fast, and the M8 produces more noice, a lot, actually, at high ISO compared to your 1D II. I will strongly advice you to use flash with the M8. Both the M8 and other Leica cameras perform very well with flash photography because then the excellent optics comes to it's right. I use two old (you get them cheape nowadays) Vivitar 283 flashes, one on the camera, the other on a foot (from a Canon 550EX) triggered with a slave. Try flash light directed towards the camera, but not with the flash in the picture. Amazing! Small bag? Depends on 'how small'. I use a Löwepro Magnum AW - you find it here: http://www.lowepro.com/Products/Shoulder_Bags/superior/Magnum_AW.aspx Which I fill with two cameras; an MP and the M8, some lenses and the two flashes, film, lense cleaning sets, SD cards etc.

 

[tbarker13]

There is nothing wrong with any of your choices.

As for bags, you can look through this forum and find tons of opinions on tons of bags. Some favored brands are Billingham (I think the Hadley line is nice), Domke and Artisan and Artist. They all make smaller bags, which you'd probably be seeking for this kit.

As for your lens choices, you could certainly save money there if you wanted to go with less expensive CV options. Or Zeiss. Or even older Leica lenses. There are just so many nice lenses out in the RF world, you almost have to work at it to choose a bad one.

I had a 35 lux asph and it was an excellent low light lens. In a recent shift of my lens kit, I sold it to fund other lenses. I've "replaced" it temporarily with the 35 nokton. Haven't done much with it yet, but it seems like a solid, and pretty heavy, performer.
Another excellent, and lower priced, low-light option is the CV 28 Ultron. Or the CV40 Nokton, though some people aren't crazy about its bokeh.

Personally, I've never used a flash on a Leica M, but then I don't have to feed myself with my camera. Like a lot of folks here, I use them for their available light capabilities.

 

[etrigan63]

Wow! Nothing for half-a-day and then a deluge! I should keep more normal hours...

OK, in order:

I currently use my 1D Mk 2 for the following -

1. Shooting sports events (my kids mostly)
2. Shooting school events (plays, etc - usually on a stage and mostly well-lit)
3. Travel - Landscapes, city scenes, landmarks, sites of interest
4. Informal events - parties, get togethers, etc...
5. Product shots - usually in a lightbox with well controlled lighting
6. Trade shows - computer industry events where I go a take product shots from the booth(s) and post to my website.

Lenses I currently favor (on the Canon):

1. 24-105mm f/4 L with IS (image stabilization) - walkabout lens
2. 70-300mm f/3.5-5.6 DO IS
3. 28mm f/1.8 for trade shows (Canon has a 1.3x crop factor)
4. 50mm f/1.8 for portraits

I have found the 28mm a touch wide for trade shows but plenty fast. When I do informal events, I have to walk around with the camera tucked away so I don't put people off by it - it is a huge camera.

I am not looking to replace this camera, it's too versatile. I am looking to supplement it with the M8 for the informal gatherings, the trade shows (the Mk 2 is affectionately known as "the brick") and for general travel photos.

I am looking for a lightweight kit (in comparison to the Canon gear) for those purposes and a small, durable bag to carry them around in. Preferably NOT a backpack. I have plenty of those.

I have tried P&S cameras and cannot stand them. I am too used to the responsiveness of the Canon.

I had originally learned photography from my sister's godfather (who used to live across the street from us - may he rest in peace) when I was about 10 years old on his modified Leica M3 he brought over from Cuba. He modified it to fit in a home-made underwater housing (he and my father were scuba diving afficionados) having glued on appendages and such to allow focussing, apeture adjustment, and cocking the shutter to occur underwater.

He gave me a 1947 edition of the Leica Manual which I still treasure to this day.

In high school I got into SLRs but now want to go back to rangefinders.

Does this help?

PS: the sample photo was to show that I hope to be worthy of the kind of photography expected of Leica owners...

 

[sunil mehta]

Best bags I have found that are of terrific quality and very versatile are the Fogg bags. Definitely check these out before you settle on a bag.

 

[photorat]

Try flash light directed towards the camera, but not with the flash in the picture. Amazing!

This is interesting! Do you have any example shots using this technique?

To the OP, bear in mind that older vivitars (and other high voltage flash units) should NOT be used on digital bodies (or they will melt the electronics). Or so I understand. I've never actually used a flash on my RFs before, which is why Olsen has piqued my curiosity with this post.

 

[Richard Marks]

You are talking about a pretty drastic change in your photographic technique going from DSLR to a rangefinder. I am very much with JAAP in suggesting trying one out first. They are probably not as flexible for product shots or sporting events, as your DSLR as thre are limitations on both wide and telephoto focal lengths compared to your current set up. But for informal portraits and travel shots its an amazingly liberating machine. Making a big cash investment without a good trial may well lead to disatisfaction which usually cilminates in the "My M8 is rubish" type posts a couple of weeks later. Id start with the new 28 2.8 M8 and SF24 flash and see where it takes you.

 

[etrigan63]

Informal portraits and travel/trade show photos are my intended purpose for the M8. I have no plans of getting rid of my 1D Mk2.

 

[Richard Marks]

Informal portraits and travel/trade show photos are my intended purpose for the M8. I have no plans of getting rid of my 1D Mk2.

I see!
For informal portraits the M8 is a joy to use. I still say go and try one and see for yourself. Take some inmages onto your own sd card and analyse them at leisure.
The camera performs pretty well up to ISO 640 which gets you hand held shots in available light without flash. Ultimate lens speed is less of an issue and I can certainly recommend the 28 2.8. ( its about 37mm in full frame equivalent)
If you are holding on to the SLR system there is no urgency to buy lots of m lenses.

 

[furcafe]

With proper exposure & w/a little judicious noise reduction (I use Noise Ninja but Neat Image, etc. are fine, too), I think the M8's ISO 1250 performance is actually very respectable. If you're going to skip film RFs & go straight to the M8, I would suggest going w/the classic available light RF thing & just get a single fast lens, either the 35/1.4 Summilux, 28/2 Summicron, or CV 28/1.9 Ultron, & skip the flash unit entirely.

As far as bags, I will repeat for the umpteenth time my standard advice of staying away from actual "camera" bags & just buying any regular old messenger bag, briefcase, "manbag," etc., that you find comfortable using & then getting a camera equipment insert from Domke, Tenba, Billingham etc. that will fit inside your chosen bag.

I don't know why you would want a black finish camera or need a "Thumbs up" grip, but that's a personal thing. 😉

 

[etrigan63]

I don't know why you would want a black finish camera or need a "Thumbs up" grip, but that's a personal thing. 😉

I think black cameras ROCK! As you said, a personal thing. 🙄

The Thumbs Up grip is being developed by Tim Isaacs and it looks to be a great idea. He has a thread here about it. I hope he develops a hot shoe version so I won't have to take it off.

I have an appointment tomorrow with David over at Dale Labs in Hollywood, FL tomorrow to try out his demo M8. I may just go with the M8 and the 35 lux to start with.

 

[etrigan63]

Well, I just got back from Dale Labs in Hollywood, FL. Great staff, very helpful. David was unavailable as he is preparing for a trip to Solms as a host of the Leica-Porche Tour. Lucky sonovagun! I got to try out the M8-Lux 35mm combo on my two favorite subjects: my kids and whatever is being displayed on a table. The M8 performed well (any errors at this point were photographer related as I am not used to the Leica-RF focussing mechanism) although I did notice that it's WB settings sometimes were off (leaning towards warm) but easily correctable in Lightroom (I shoot RAW/DNG exclusively) and no worse than what happens on my 1D Mk2.

So based on this, I am amending my shopping list as follows:

Leica M8 in Black
Leica 35mm Summilux f/1.4 coded
UV/IR Filter (in black trim)
Leica M8 Hand Grip
Tim Isaacs Thumbs Up Model 1 (for large hands)
Leica SD24 Flash (for those really dark moments)
Crumpler bag (Dale Labs is a Crumpler dealer)

 

[etrigan63]

UPDATE: Going over my budgets I may have to try to scrimp a bit. I have been thinking of replacing the 35mm Summilux-M (coded) with a Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM instead.

I have to research it more, but can anyone point me to some good reviews and/or samples with the M8 and this lens? Does coding make that much of a difference? Will I be able to order the IR/UV cut-filter for it?

I checked at Reidreviews (I have a subscription) but didn't see any of the Biogon on an M8.

 

[nobbylon]

To the OP, bear in mind that older vivitars (and other high voltage flash units) should NOT be used on digital bodies (or they will melt the electronics). Or so I understand.

spot on, most camera manuals state a max trigger voltage and some of the earlier 283's (japan) have very large voltages. The one I have which is approx 27yrs old! has voltage of around 110v which is actually on the low side for these units! and I have used this on my D70 a lot with no probs so far. The newer 283's (china) have much lower voltages and are fine.
If I had an M8 I dont think I would be using it, I don't use it on my R8 because of the above.
regards j

http://www.theothermartintaylor.com/moveabletype/archives/cameras/000156.html

http://www.acecam.com/photography/2108.html

 

[etrigan63]

I was never planning on using an old Vivitar flash unit, just the SD24F from Leica or possibly a Metz. As it stands, I will hold off on the flash relying on a fast lens at first.

Sean Reid has informed me that he will have a review of 35mm M lenses by the end of this week (hopefully) which should help me finalize my lens choice (I am leaning towards a Zeiss 35mm f/2 Biogon T* ZM due to cost).

 

[cmogi10]

So out of the list what did you end up getting?