sper
Well-known
I work at B&H in the used department, and I know the Olympus sales rep a bit, who was today wearing a black EP-2 with the EVF. I asked if I could see it, and he gave me a but of a wry look, but allowed me.
I was mostly interested in the EVF. I hate EVFs, they're ugly as sin and unnecessary even on m4/3rds cameras when optical finders are readily available, but I've also read that this one is supposed to be 'big ****.' So I tried it out.
"This doesn't suck!" was actually what I said. And it doesn't. It's still not great though, certainly not excellent. Better than crappy though! the image was clear and you could probably use it to focus. It was sort of like looking through a high-end pro HD video camera's color finder. I'm sure some people will love it.
So yeah, that was my experience. I didn't have time to play with anything else, except that the camera had a 25mm lens on it, which was interesting. I didn't have time to even see what max ƒ stop it had... If there was some announcement of this I must have missed it.
I plan on buying an EP-1 or 2, or a GF1 in the coming months. After I get my M6
I was mostly interested in the EVF. I hate EVFs, they're ugly as sin and unnecessary even on m4/3rds cameras when optical finders are readily available, but I've also read that this one is supposed to be 'big ****.' So I tried it out.
"This doesn't suck!" was actually what I said. And it doesn't. It's still not great though, certainly not excellent. Better than crappy though! the image was clear and you could probably use it to focus. It was sort of like looking through a high-end pro HD video camera's color finder. I'm sure some people will love it.
So yeah, that was my experience. I didn't have time to play with anything else, except that the camera had a 25mm lens on it, which was interesting. I didn't have time to even see what max ƒ stop it had... If there was some announcement of this I must have missed it.
I plan on buying an EP-1 or 2, or a GF1 in the coming months. After I get my M6
kshapero
South Florida Man
Get the M6 and a friendly lens. You may not look back.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Interesting update, thanks. First hand experience is worth it's weight in gold.
B2 (;->
B2 (;->
Better than crappy, sounds like an endorsement to me.
W
Way
Guest
I use the EVF on my GF1 often and I thought it was pretty good - certainly better than crappy! I use it to focus manually and found that it was easy to determine focus and is accurate. I'd be very interested to see how the EP-2 compares.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I'm holding on for the EP-3!....due around Easter - I think!
Dave.
Dave.
baycrest
Established
I picked up an M6 classic on eBay last year. Nice solid camera.
This past weekend picked up the R3A. I do enjoy the 1:1 finder (compared to the Leica .72) and the Aperture Priority mode on the Voightlander. Its nice light camera. See how it holds up under normal conditions.
Do have a look at the R3A if you get the chance.
Best Rob
gnuyork
Well-known
After years of waiting, I now have my M6 (and love it), now also thinking of the EP1/2 or GF1. Too bad you couldn't see if the focus was any faster on the EP2. That would be one of the drawbacks for me to chose the Olympus over the GF1.
I may just hold off and get another lens for the M6 instead - a 35 or 28 of some sort...
I may just hold off and get another lens for the M6 instead - a 35 or 28 of some sort...
sper
Well-known
I have had a lood at the R3A actually! I like the Bessa's a lot, and own an R2A, Aperture priority is great. I don't actually like the 1:1 finder. I much more prefer the R4A's super wide frame lines, which in my opinion is perfect for 25-35mm lenses. I like the framelines square in the center, similar to the 50mm frames lines of a .72 finder.
If they could just make a rangefinder Micro 4/3rds camera and kept making panasonic and olympus lenses...that would be a sweet alternative to an M9 for those of us not able to bank it.
My whole thing is, why over complicate at the expense of quality? I would even prefer a Contax G style finder over the EVF options.
Oh well, progress...I suppose.
And yes I can't wait to buy an M6 or a Zeiss Ikon...still making my mind up on that one..l.
If they could just make a rangefinder Micro 4/3rds camera and kept making panasonic and olympus lenses...that would be a sweet alternative to an M9 for those of us not able to bank it.
My whole thing is, why over complicate at the expense of quality? I would even prefer a Contax G style finder over the EVF options.
Oh well, progress...I suppose.
And yes I can't wait to buy an M6 or a Zeiss Ikon...still making my mind up on that one..l.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
I work at B&H in the used department, and I know the Olympus sales rep a bit, who was today wearing a black EP-2 with the EVF. I asked if I could see it, and he gave me a but of a wry look, but allowed me.
I was mostly interested in the EVF. I hate EVFs, they're ugly as sin and unnecessary even on m4/3rds cameras when optical finders are readily available, but I've also read that this one is supposed to be 'big ****.' So I tried it out.
"This doesn't suck!" was actually what I said. And it doesn't. It's still not great though, certainly not excellent. Better than crappy though! the image was clear and you could probably use it to focus. It was sort of like looking through a high-end pro HD video camera's color finder. I'm sure some people will love it.
So yeah, that was my experience. I didn't have time to play with anything else, except that the camera had a 25mm lens on it, which was interesting. I didn't have time to even see what max ƒ stop it had... If there was some announcement of this I must have missed it.
I plan on buying an EP-1 or 2, or a GF1 in the coming months. After I get my M6
I have posted this observation in a different thread...long story:
Recently, I was in Tokyo and had the opportunity of viewing through a GH-1, a GF-1 and an EP-1 (optical finder) one after another. I must say the EP-1 optical is still the best, but the GH-1 is not far behind, and the GF-1 is not acceptable. The GH-1 has a 1.4Mp EVF (800 x 600 x RGB).
While the EP-1 optical finder is best, but manual focusing through it is impossble. However, the GH-1 can handle manual focusing-by-wire adequately. [Meaning no cam, no RF, no adjustments...]
Recently Epson announced mass production of an equivalent 1.4Mp LCD with a pixel pitch a mere 12 microns, intended for EVF applications. It is said that the new EP-2 is the first adopter... I will bet the next bout of competition will be 3.24 Mp at ~9 microns... The EVF will only get better.
While the EP-1 optical finder is best, but manual focusing through it is impossble. However, the GH-1 can handle manual focusing-by-wire adequately. [Meaning no cam, no RF, no adjustments...]
Recently Epson announced mass production of an equivalent 1.4Mp LCD with a pixel pitch a mere 12 microns, intended for EVF applications. It is said that the new EP-2 is the first adopter... I will bet the next bout of competition will be 3.24 Mp at ~9 microns... The EVF will only get better.
- An EVF works now and will be better tomorrow.
- No VF is more direct than an EVF...seeing what the film/sensor sees, before the fact.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
First off thank you for the OP for posting a useful impression. I do like the "better than crappy" endorsement.
Secondly, I think we need to categorize people who would be using cameras like EP-2 when we think about what to expect from external viewfinders (EVF or optical):
1. Folks who would use it with manual lenses, these will rely on the non-suckyness of the external EVF to use the camera. An optical viewfinder will be of limited use at best.
2. Folks who would only use the kit lens or other compatible AF lenses, these will be better served with a more compact, zero lag, plain optical finder, because AF will take care of the focusing for the most part.
I belong to the first camp, so the impression that the EVF is at least usable is a good news to me.
Secondly, I think we need to categorize people who would be using cameras like EP-2 when we think about what to expect from external viewfinders (EVF or optical):
1. Folks who would use it with manual lenses, these will rely on the non-suckyness of the external EVF to use the camera. An optical viewfinder will be of limited use at best.
2. Folks who would only use the kit lens or other compatible AF lenses, these will be better served with a more compact, zero lag, plain optical finder, because AF will take care of the focusing for the most part.
I belong to the first camp, so the impression that the EVF is at least usable is a good news to me.
Frankie
Speaking Frankly
Now we are having useful discussions rather than the usual dogma.
To my way of photography, manual focusing is very important, or at least a good focus-lock facility. Auto-always-focusing is far less than ideal.
Many, including me, have thoughts that M4/3 could evolve into a "functional replacement" of RF cameras. A good EVF is therefore a must. Nothing Leica has offered includes diopter adjustments...important to us aging yuppies with mature eyesight, and cash.
The way EVF works on the GF-1 and EP-2 means it might be upgradeable as Epson and Panasonic compete. I will bet the GF-2 will have just as good an EVF [the current one has too low a resolution even for simple focusing, and far worse than looking at an HD-TV upclose].
For what it's worth [dear sper]: the ZM has a far better view finder than any Leica models ever, period. That was what sold me immediately. I am sure you will have all opportunities at B&H to do a side-by-side comparison.
BTW, the ZM rangefinder has a far longer reach: infinity is not just a few blocks away but across the harbour to the mountain silhouette [in where I live], often misconstrued as error. Many who nitpick also seems not to know that hyper-focal occurs only 127' away wide-open [in my standard CV 40/1.4 @1.4] and much shorter in wider angle lenses.
My overall thinking for my next M-mount lens now revolves around which one will also be usable in the M4/3...a CV 21mm/4 that becomes a 42mm, or a CV 25mm/4 that becomes a 50mm...
Perhaps a GF-2 [which I favour] will soon be announced.
To my way of photography, manual focusing is very important, or at least a good focus-lock facility. Auto-always-focusing is far less than ideal.
Many, including me, have thoughts that M4/3 could evolve into a "functional replacement" of RF cameras. A good EVF is therefore a must. Nothing Leica has offered includes diopter adjustments...important to us aging yuppies with mature eyesight, and cash.
The way EVF works on the GF-1 and EP-2 means it might be upgradeable as Epson and Panasonic compete. I will bet the GF-2 will have just as good an EVF [the current one has too low a resolution even for simple focusing, and far worse than looking at an HD-TV upclose].
For what it's worth [dear sper]: the ZM has a far better view finder than any Leica models ever, period. That was what sold me immediately. I am sure you will have all opportunities at B&H to do a side-by-side comparison.
BTW, the ZM rangefinder has a far longer reach: infinity is not just a few blocks away but across the harbour to the mountain silhouette [in where I live], often misconstrued as error. Many who nitpick also seems not to know that hyper-focal occurs only 127' away wide-open [in my standard CV 40/1.4 @1.4] and much shorter in wider angle lenses.
My overall thinking for my next M-mount lens now revolves around which one will also be usable in the M4/3...a CV 21mm/4 that becomes a 42mm, or a CV 25mm/4 that becomes a 50mm...
Perhaps a GF-2 [which I favour] will soon be announced.
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sper
Well-known
Regarding the EVF:
The fact that you can attempt to do a non precision manual focus with the EVF is cool, and I'm sure as technology progresses it'll get even better. And yes, the Panasonic EVF which I also played with today was a suckfest of contrast and non-sharpness. Just wholly unpleasant.
The EVF as an alternative to LCD framing is important though, for another reason. Simple stability. You're going to be holding the camera with less vibration as it's pressed against your eye, as opposed to out in front of you. So a VF of SOME KIND is important as we start to see cameras that can resolve actual detail, as opposed to a tiny-sensor point and shoot.
So I guess in that regard the Oly EVF is okay with me, assuming I can't stick a V'lander accessory finder on there to correspond with my focal lengths (I'm never gonna buy that awkward zoom). I mean, a 17mm lens should have some serious depth of field. If they were built like M lenses we could just use hyper-focal most of the time! But camera manufacturers, and consumers, in their infinite wisdom have decided that the less we have to think, the better. I blame the coked out fashion photographers.
OH! I should mention that it auto-focused fast. Should satisfy more people there. Not crazy fast, just not slow.
As for the Zeiss Ikon vs M6!
Oh I do compare them, at length, whilst I explain to European travelers the marginal differences between the 75 dollar point and shoot and the 95 dollar point and shoot. I have a lot of time to play with cameras, which is torturous. I have even tried to get the Nikon SB-400 flash to fire on an MP, M6, and M8. It won't work. I also like to throw LTM-M mount adaptors on every wack-a-do screw in lens I can find and throw them on M8s.
The ZI finder is glorious. The aperture priority is also a huge plus for me. The M6 though, is an investment camera. It has a hell of a feel to it. It's a toss up. Yeah Mamiya's have more features than my Hasselblad , but I've never regretted that purchase. Neither camera is idea for the lenses I like to use (21mm, 50mm). So I dunno.
Right now I'm saving for a ZF 21mm ƒ2.8 for my Nikon D700 and a new iMac, so I have some time to think about it.
Man that's way off topic.
The fact that you can attempt to do a non precision manual focus with the EVF is cool, and I'm sure as technology progresses it'll get even better. And yes, the Panasonic EVF which I also played with today was a suckfest of contrast and non-sharpness. Just wholly unpleasant.
The EVF as an alternative to LCD framing is important though, for another reason. Simple stability. You're going to be holding the camera with less vibration as it's pressed against your eye, as opposed to out in front of you. So a VF of SOME KIND is important as we start to see cameras that can resolve actual detail, as opposed to a tiny-sensor point and shoot.
So I guess in that regard the Oly EVF is okay with me, assuming I can't stick a V'lander accessory finder on there to correspond with my focal lengths (I'm never gonna buy that awkward zoom). I mean, a 17mm lens should have some serious depth of field. If they were built like M lenses we could just use hyper-focal most of the time! But camera manufacturers, and consumers, in their infinite wisdom have decided that the less we have to think, the better. I blame the coked out fashion photographers.
OH! I should mention that it auto-focused fast. Should satisfy more people there. Not crazy fast, just not slow.
As for the Zeiss Ikon vs M6!
Oh I do compare them, at length, whilst I explain to European travelers the marginal differences between the 75 dollar point and shoot and the 95 dollar point and shoot. I have a lot of time to play with cameras, which is torturous. I have even tried to get the Nikon SB-400 flash to fire on an MP, M6, and M8. It won't work. I also like to throw LTM-M mount adaptors on every wack-a-do screw in lens I can find and throw them on M8s.
The ZI finder is glorious. The aperture priority is also a huge plus for me. The M6 though, is an investment camera. It has a hell of a feel to it. It's a toss up. Yeah Mamiya's have more features than my Hasselblad , but I've never regretted that purchase. Neither camera is idea for the lenses I like to use (21mm, 50mm). So I dunno.
Right now I'm saving for a ZF 21mm ƒ2.8 for my Nikon D700 and a new iMac, so I have some time to think about it.
Man that's way off topic.