Please compare and contrast...

[philbond87]

Hello all. I'm new to this forum - I think it's a great resource and community and I wonder why i haven't found it before!

Well, I'm thinking about getting a MF rangefinder. I don't have money for a Mamiya 6 or 7, or a Bronica RF. That leaves me the used Fujis.

Now, I've currently got an ETRS so I'm well comfortable with the 645 format but I don't always want to carry around that kit. I also have an old GL690 and I'm quite happy with it's performance however, although it is a rangefinder, I wouldn't consider it portable or quick to shoot. It's usually glued to my tripod with a cable release dangling from it while a light meter dangles from my neck.

I guess what I want is to hear some comparisons between the GA645(60) and GS645S(60).

I like the idea of the siplicity and compactness of the GA but will I be bothered by the difficulty overriding the auto features and a dependence on batteries? That's right, I'm asking you all to think FOR me! ;-)

Thank you all in advance,
Phil

 

[FrankS]

Hi Phil, welcome! Everyone is different but I prefer the older mechanical cameras to the newer electronic ones. I also prefer metal over plastic, but I do have a GS645W Fujica that I like except theat the shutter is really loud, and it's made mainly of plastic.

 

[philbond87]

Frank S,
I too, prefer not to be addicted to batteries, electronics, etc. On the other hand, sometimes the difference between me getting a shot or not depends on whether or not I can 1) get the large, bulky camera out, 2) meter the scene 3) plug the measuments into the camera... . Atleast that's the case with my GL. Don't get me wrong - I actually love the hands on, manual aproach. For the shots that can wait, of course.

Yeah, I'm a little put off by the (as I read) poor, plasticky build quality, though.

Phil

 

[Doug]

Welcome to RFF, Phil... I have a GS645S and a GA654Wi (45mm). While I like both, I have to admit I take along the GA much more often, especially since I have a 645RF too. Both Fujis have nice viewfinders that are not only parallax compensated, but adjust frame-size too. Anyway, I find the GS rather slow, mostly because its control arrangement is more typical of leaf-shutter cameras, and I'm more used to having the shutter speed on the body.

Frank mentioned the GS shutter noise, and it's considerable... and in my view unnecessary. I believe it contains a deliberate noisemaker. The clue to that is using the self-timer: The CLACK occurs as the timer is started, and a few seconds later one can hear a common-sounding leaf-shutter click.

The downside of the GA is the autofocus, at least for me, that one needs to learn and get used to. I have a bunch of shots with nice sharp backgrounds and blurry subjects! It was my first experience with AF so I had a lot to learn...

The GS is lighter, more compact. Not dependent on batteries except for the light meter. But the GA is faster to use... carry a spare set of batteries in your bag, along with the spare 120 reel. Either camera becomes useless if you drop the takeup reel into a crevasse! The GS takes 15 shots on a 120 roll while the GA takes 16.

Both cameras have lovely lenses, and can produce photos of excellent quality. Sample of GS645S below. Seems to me your choice is one of user interface.

 

[philbond87]

Doug,

Thanks. Great info. The GS is more compact than the GA? Admittedly, I've never held either, but from pictures I've seen I would have assumed the just the opposite.

You mentioned the shutter noise of the GS. I've heard that the GA is a rather noisy unit to, what with the film advance and auto focus. True?

Also, what is the battery situation? I mean, how many rolls of 120 per set and how expensive/available are they?

Thanks again,
Phil

 

[Doug]

The GS is more compact than the GA? Admittedly, I've never held either, but from pictures I've seen I would have assumed the just the opposite.

...I've heard that the GA is a rather noisy unit to, what with the film advance and auto focus. True?

Also, what is the battery situation? I mean, how many rolls of 120 per set and how expensive/available are they?

Phil, the GA takes two CR123 batteries. I got the camera used, with used batteries that then lasted 14 rolls of 220 over a period of about one year. It's only had another 7 rolls of 220 in the 10 months since, as I've been "testing" a lot of 35mm stuff! The GS takes two SR44 batteries; I shot a dozen rolls of 220 in about 18 months and don't recall having changed batteries. But I carry spare batteries for both in the bag!

The GA has motor noises that are so common these days with modern cameras...! Heard more clearly, certainly, by the user than the victim. 🙂 And I did have one victim of the GS on a less-populated stretch of sandy ocean beach. The sound of the surf masked my steps in the sand as I approached a young lady relaxing in the sun. I took a shot down the beach with her in the foreground about 10 feet away, and the loud CLACK made her jump visibly and look around.

The shot below illustrates what might happen... Red panties the only evidence left behind by some gal probably scared right out of them by the CLACK of a Fuji GS! Joking; this is the same stretch of beach, but a different occasion and camera!

I don't have a weight for the GS645S, but it feels a bit lighter than my GA645Wi which weighs in at 820 grams. The two Fujis are about the same 11cm height but the GA is wider at 16.5cm than the GS's 14.5cm.

Oddly, the GA has its strap lugs both on the left while the GS has both on the right, making it handier on the right shoulder.

 

[philbond87]

Well, I went for the GA. Just got it and I'm very impressed so far. Guess I'd better reserve complete judgement until I've run a roll of film through it, but it feels more substantial than I was expecting, as I'd heard that it was mostly plastic. Nice and light - plastic, but with a solid feel. Also I must add that, again, KEH has not let me down. I've been extremely happy with their service and (in my opinion conservative) equipment ratings. Bargain is just that: a real bargain for me.

Phil

 

[Doug]

Congratulations, Phil! I'm sure you're going to like it a lot! Is it the GA645 or GA645i? Its preferences include an option to imprint exposure data along the edge of the film, which you might find as handy as I do...

 

[DougK]

Welcome to the GA club, Phil!

I also have the GA645 (60mm lens) and I've never found build quality to be an issue. There's a bit of motor noise but it's on a par with quieter SLR motor drives and not horrible; at least no one has ever glared at me for taking a shot and I've used it in some pretty quiet areas. I make sure to carry along spare batteries but after ten rolls of 120 it hasn't been an issue yet. Output quality is first rate as you would expect from a medium format camera. Mine imprints data outside the frame although I only get 15 shots per roll of 120 instead of the 16 Doug noted that he gets. The AF takes a bit of getting used to but manual focus is easy to get to and use if you need it, much easier than the manual exposure options; fortunately, the meter has been spot on for every exposure I've made so I leave it in auto most of the time.

I think you'll really enjoy the camera, I know I love mine.

 

[philbond87]

Thanks for the welcome, guys.
Doug: Mine is just the 645, not the "i" version, with 60mm.
dkirchge: I was a little afraid of the noise issue, as I had heard chatter on the web regarding it. I was a bit surprised to note that it wasn't nearly as bad as I expected. In fact, I don't consider it remarkable at all — and I am a rather "shy" photograher. Of course, even though it's quiet, you can only be so shy trying to shoot with a G690. It doesn't make noise, but you sure get noticed shooting with it.

I've been sort of practicing with the autofocus, as I've heard it might take a little getting used to. I think that so long as you do a quick "does this make sense" check with the distance readout, you'll be alright.

I look forward to putting it through it's paces.

Phil

 

[DougK]

Agreed, that's what I usually do with the focus distance. I think a lot of the chatter about this camera is just that... chatter and random noise. You already have one, but Dante Stella has a great section on his website about this camera and how he uses it. I picked up a couple of good tidbits from him.

Oh, and give me a yell if you need a copy of the manual, I have it in PDF format around here somewhere and can email it to you if needed.

 

[philbond87]

Doug K,

Dante Stella "talked" me into getting the G690 (by my reading his comments regarding it on his site) and, consequently, I regarded highly his comments regarding the GA. I suspect that those who find the autofocus at times problematic aren't in the habit of checking the numbers. I'm sort of under the impression that the point of focus isn't actually the "point" of the cross hairs, rather the area the entire cross hair "plus" covers. What do I know — I just got the darned thing. ;-)

Oh, and yes, I would love a pdf version of the manual! Thanks.

Phil

 

[Doug]

I only get 15 shots per roll of 120 instead of the 16 Doug noted that he gets.

Hi DougK -- Looking in the .pdf manual, it's apparently for the GA645 and GA645W and not the GA645i series, as the "i" is not mentioned, and the illustrations don't show the second shutter release on the front. Figure 32 illustrates that it takes 16 and 32 exposures on 120 and 220 film (and it states this on page 15), same as my GA645Wi.

It occurs to me that if you wind-on the film leader too far when loading the film, the camera may give only 15 shots... Fig 20 illustrates that the big crossways arrow on the paper leader should line up with the supply-side spool release button... On page 22 ¶8 it says precise arrow position is not critical since the camera will sense the leading edge of the film, but if you position the arrow to the right of the film gate then that's too far to get correct first-frame positioning. Maybe then you'd get only 15 exposures.

I'm thinking of taking my GA along next month on a trip to Palm Springs CA. Load it with NPZ800 and concentrate on indoor shots. Load the Bronica RF645 with NPS160 for outdoor use. This combination worked very well on a previous vacation trip. The Bronica's 45mm calls for an external viewfinder, and the camera doesn't focus closer than 1m. So the 645Wi with its 45mm and focusing to 0.7m (same for your 60mm!) is great for close quarters indoors.

 

[DougK]

That's very bizarre... I don't have the i version (no second shutter release) and I'm pretty careful to line up the film correctly when loading. I'll have to play with it when I get home tonight, it's completely possible that I've been misloading the camera or just flat out forgetting I took 16 frames 🙂. At any rate, it's a great camera regardless of the number of exposures per roll - I think everyone into medium format should have one.

 

[ermali]

hi!

hi!

I own a fuji ga645 and reading your posts I wonder, why other people (as I do) have problems with this camera?! the metering system works well only if I am In the same lightning conditions as the subject, that means that shooting from a window something far and lighted differently will cause you problems. 2 the loud noise you hear from the focusing mechanism and the noise people are complaining about is totally different guys! It's a grinding noise of mechanism not matching, imagine runing a nail file through plastic, that sometimes becomes a very very irritating whistling noise! I repeat "It's not the motor noise"!!! How could possibly a professional camera have such a problem? How do you deal with that since you CAN"T change the lens? Only the Fuji technicians could tell us but unfortunately they're resting, since they don't provide support for this cameras anymore! How come that the lens barrel is made of metal (probably, nobody knows that for sure, since we can check only the outter parts) and be so unstable and unfixed??? try moving the lens with your hand, try that a little harder and you'll probably end up with the lens in your hand!!! The fuji ga645 might try to call itself a "professional" camera, but that would be the most innapropiate use of that word so far! Have fun since it lasts. Oh by the way, check the sides of the picture. but don't be dissapointed since it's impossible for those kind of lens to be aligned "professionally"...

 

[Doug]

Hi Ermali, and welcome to RFF! The metering you describe makes me think of shooting in a dark theatre of action on the lighted stage, where the camera meter "sees" a lot of very dark area around the lighted subjects. Under this and circumstance it's normal to overexpose the subject unless you've metered with a spot meter or had an opportunity to go onto the stage to meter the incident light.

Actually, my Fuji GA645Wi seems pretty resistant to this... perhaps its meter is strongly center-weighted?

Maybe some are find the focusing noises more irritating, or perhaps your camera is unusually noisy; as you mention it sometimes sounds different, it might be something wrong with the camera.

True, the lens wiggles very slightly both when retracted and extended, but as it must move in and out with a motor, some clearance room is necessary. Perhaps yours is looser than mine, but I've not felt any concern that mine could come apart accidentally. I don't see any sign of misalignment on the camera or on my pictures, which are mostly shot with fast film indoors with the lens wide open at conversational distances!

I certainly do think there are variations in peoples' assessment of different products, probably moreso than the usually small manufacturing variations in the product. I'll see if I can offer another sample shot from mine...