please help me learn exposure

bmattock said:
Not all meters are adjusted to 18%. Some manufacturers use 12% and some use 14%. I agree that you have to adjust if your subject is much darker or lighter - assuming you want to expose your subject medium gray.
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Agreed as well. We are on the same page. Didn't mean to mislead as to the %. Different manufacturers use a different % standard.

bmattock said:
Reasonable info from Kodak, but it just allows you to make an exposure that will ensure your subject is neither over nor under-exposed. If your intent it otherwise, then it won't help. A spot meter would be ideal if you have specific intent regarding exposure that is not simply 'well exposed'.
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Again, agreed. Gotta use our brains in conjunction with meter readings. 🙂
 
If you can fit the Sekonic L-358 in your shirt pocket, then yes, your shirt pockets are certainly bigger than mine. Then again, the OP wrote that he occasionally uses a Gossen Luna Pro, which I think is even bigger than the L-358, so maybe he has big pockets, too.

I was also thinking more along the lines of dedicated spot meters, like the Pentax, w/their "Star Trek" phaser-like shape & size.

bmattock said:
These seem like surmountable problems to me. I haven't really had the problem of my spot meter 'weighing me down' to tell the truth. Seems to fit in my shirt pocket. Maybe I just have big shirts.
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david.elliott said:
I disagree.

Incident meters are calibrated around 18% gray. They give proper exposures for 18% gray. If your subject is much lighter or much darker, you do need to adjust.

EDIT: Kodak agrees with me. See http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/en/consumer/products/techInfo/af9/index.shtml#54503

"The exposure determined by an incident-light meter should be the same as reading a gray card with a reflected-light meter. Fortunately, many scenes have average reflectance with an even mix of light and dark areas, so the exposure indicated is good for many picture-taking situations. However, if the main subject is very light or very dark, and you want to record detail in this area, you must modify the meter's exposure ....
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I read this as Kokak saying: "You don't have to correct incident-meter readings and fotunately, for many scenes neither do you have to adjust reflected-meter readings. Only for extreme cases do you need to adjust your reflected-meter readings". According to this interpretation, Kodak doesn't agree with you.

Greetings,
Dirk
 
delft said:
I read this as Kokak saying: "You don't have to correct incident-meter readings and fotunately, for many scenes neither do you have to adjust reflected-meter readings. Only for extreme cases do you need to adjust your reflected-meter readings". According to this interpretation, Kodak doesn't agree with you.

Greetings,
Dirk
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You're reading it wrong.

see --

"However, if the main subject is very light or very dark, and you want to record detail in this area, you must modify the meter's exposure recommendations as follows:

For light subjects, decrease exposure by 1/2 to 1 stop from the meter reading.
For dark subjects, increase exposure by 1/2 to 1 stop from the meter reading.
You will notice that these adjustments are just the opposite from those required for a reflected-light meter. An incident meter does not work well when photographing light sources because it cannot meter light directly. In such situations you will be better off using a reflected-light meter or an exposure table."

You need to adjust both incident readings and reflected readings.
 
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Whole books have been written on exposure, including Perfect Exposure (David & Charles/Amphoto, 1999). Two enduring myths are that exposures are keyed to 18% gray (they aren't) and that the same exposure determination methods can be used for slide/digital and negative (only true if the tonal range is quite short). There are several modules about it on my site, including:

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps expo neg.html (exposing negs)

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps expo slide.html (exposing slides and digital)

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps 18 per cent.html (gray cards)

http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps zone.html (the fact that the Zone System is a simplification of sensitometry, not its basis).

There are plenty who know more about sensitometry and exposure than I, but very few of those who actually understand either subject have found a great deal to argue about in the above modules.

Cheers,

R.
 
bmattock said:
I use the 1 degree attachment on my Sekonic L-358. Center the cross hairs on my subject, press the button. One reading. Not really very hard.
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I use my Sekonic L-358 religiously as well. Always for incident readings. For reflective readings I use Gossen Digisix (which is a fine tool as long as you know it's limitations).

Could you provide any exemplars (link is fine!) of your film work using L-358 w/1 degree attachment with indication/comment what part/point of object was used for metering, please? I'm thinking buying same attachment for myself as well,

thanks a lot in advance!
 
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arthur sadowsky said:
I use my Sekonic L-358 religiously as well. Always for incident readings. For reflective readings I use Gossen Digisix (which is a fine tool as long as you know it's limitations).

Could you provide any exemplars (link is fine!) of your film work using L-358 w/1 degree attachment with indication/comment what part/point of object was used for metering, please? I'm thinking buying same attachment for myself as well,

thanks a lot in advance!
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/400147153/

I had previously metered the Amtrak logo (the brightest spot in the frame) and the inside of the doorway (darkest spot where I wanted to retain detail). I set my exposure for two stops less exposure than the dark door frame indicated. The employee appeared as I was setting up to get the shot - I thought passengers would be disembarking but they got off elsewhere.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/1355267918/

I spot metered the picture frame behind the bride and decided that would serve as my middle tone. It went a bit to the high key side, but I liked that result.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/539608072/

Here I metered the area inside the opening of the wooden covered bridge. I wasn't happy with what the meter was telling me, so I metered the foliage and went with that. Happy coincidence, I got some detail on the inside of the bridge anyway.
 
bmattock said:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/400147153/

I had previously metered the Amtrak logo (the brightest spot in the frame) and the inside of the doorway (darkest spot where I wanted to retain detail). I set my exposure for two stops less exposure than the dark door frame indicated. The employee appeared as I was setting up to get the shot - I thought passengers would be disembarking but they got off elsewhere.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/1355267918/

I spot metered the picture frame behind the bride and decided that would serve as my middle tone. It went a bit to the high key side, but I liked that result.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wigwam/539608072/

Here I metered the area inside the opening of the wooden covered bridge. I wasn't happy with what the meter was telling me, so I metered the foliage and went with that. Happy coincidence, I got some detail on the inside of the bridge anyway.
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Thanks a lot for your prompt reply and I really like your photo work! The picture of the bride is wonderful in particular (I'm not big on b@w pics, but this pic is simply great!)!!

Wish you all the best🙂...
 
Elliot,

just wondering why you would want to depict a dark black hole by a gray black hole? And a white piece of snow on medium dark rock as a gray piece of snow. I have no idea why you like to depict both dark and light as gray as you say.

What is the purpose of that? Of course, if you have a purpose like that for some reason, by all means deviate from the incidence reading accordingly.

But I personally like to depict the scene, a scene as it appears to me, Overexpose or underexpose as much as you like, Eliot, and by as much as you like, but that incidence reading gives us the proper exposure still holds.

Do you like the faint underexposed pics of Stefanie Schneider on LUMAS. So be it: underexposed they are and still sell well. Artistic licence, but underexposed (or printed) ...
 
uhligfd said:
Elliot,

just wondering why you would want to depict a dark black hole by a gray black hole? And a white piece of snow on medium dark rock as a gray piece of snow. I have no idea why you like to depict both dark and light as gray as you say.

What is the purpose of that? Of course, if you have a purpose like that for some reason, by all means deviate from the incidence reading accordingly.

But I personally like to depict the scene, a scene as it appears to me, Overexpose or underexpose as much as you like, Eliot, and by as much as you like, but that incidence reading gives us the proper exposure still holds.

Do you like the faint underexposed pics of Stefanie Schneider on LUMAS. So be it: underexposed they are and still sell well. Artistic licence, but underexposed (or printed) ...
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I never said any of that. Also, you could at least spell my name correctly.
 
wow, I go out for the afternoon and come back to 30 replies (actually there were 6 when I went out)

let me sincerely thank all of the respondents. I'll be typing all night if I respond to each, but do want to comment on some of them

actually I was out shooting and using some of the advice from the first 6 respondents. The advice of pointing the meter towards the ground and avoiding the sky, I found particularly helpful. Will try to finish the roll tomorrow and develop it this weekend

furcafe mentioned that since I also have a Luna pro I must have big pockets. Actually I bought the Digi-six because I found the Luna pro too big. So size is an issue for me.

To Bmattock the size issue is one of the reasons I don't want to use a spotmeter when doing street photography. It is just too unwieldy for this type of shooting. The irony is that I recently acquired a used spotmeter which I plan to use for some B&W landscape work (with a Bronica ETRS)

thank you to uhligfd for the info on how to use the Digi-six properly. I was not aware of the feature of holding down the button. It will come in very handy.

To Roger Hicks, I took note of your kind offer to acess your instructional pages recently, and last night I did in fact go through the two sections you have on exposure, and kept them in mind this afternoon. Thanks for your generosity.

again thank you for all the helpful comments. This is a very supportive group....
 
Learn to use exposure compensation It'll save you from insanity.

I add 2/3rds exposure compensation to my M8 during daylight hours.

And -1/3rd in the evening.
 
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