Please help me to decide - MP or M7 ??

[thodo]

Hi everybody,

since this is my first post, I want to start with saying "Hello". My name is Thorsten and I am coming from Germany. After I played with different DSLRs for about 3 years, I selled them all and completely changed to film-cameras one year ago. The main reason was, that I did not like to be a "slave of the cam and technology"; also the results I get since I use film are far better. At the moment I am exclusively using medium format.

It's been a while now, since I started to think about a rangefinder-system for the biggest part of my photography as for reasons of portability, using the medium format only for planned trips/sessions. The RF should be a cam, that is really always with me. As I am tempted by quality, I decided to get a Leica-M. I got the fixed idea to get a new one, so that my family (esp. my wife) has some more arguments, when calling me "photosick". 😉

Here's where my problem begins: I am not sure which M (MP or M7) would be better for me. I feel that I want a MP, 'cause I like its totally mechanical construction (cult) and that it gives me the opportunity to decide on every part of the picture. There is only one disadvantage of it, that comes to my mind. I would like to use the M also for family-snapshots, esp. snapshots of my little kids. For this reason (and perhaps also for some other situations, where light changes rapidly) I could imagine, that the AE of the M7 would be the better option, 'cause it's often a matter of time, if you get the shot or if you don't. I am always wondering, if one could be quick enough with a MP, if used to it. What do you think?

What I had to be aware of is, that - when choosing the M7 - I do not have the self-discipline to use the cam in manual mode, so I would use AE most of the time. This is something, what could perhaps lead into discontent, 'cause I could get the feeling, not to be photographing, but to "take snapshots". As I could note, working manually is one important thing, which makes my results in medium format much better than the results in my DSLR-time.

So, which one should I get - MP or M7? Is it possible (is it realistic) to be quick enough with a MP for snapshots of playing kids? Are there any points with a MP, which make the results inferior the ones of a M7? Is metering comfortable enough with a MP? Is it possible to use the time-wheel with the thumb e.g.?

I would really appreciate it, if you could help me out of this!

Thanks and best wishes,
Thorsten

 

[aizan]

since the m7 offers the flexibility you want, i'd go with that. if you don't have the discipline to use it manually, at least know your pictures are none the worse for it! how you set exposure really has nothing to do with the pictures you see and make. just the opposite, actually.

 

[FrankS]

Of the 2, I would get an MP and also a small digi-cam to take family snapshots. Rather than an MP however, I would rather buy an M2, M3, or M6 used. An M6 if a built-in meter is important. An M2 if using a 35mm lens is important. An M3 otherwise. You could almost buy all 3 for the price of a new MP or M7!

Just my 2 Pfennigs!

 

[peter_n]

Hi and welcome to the forum Thorsten! 🙂 As you say yourself the MP = "cult" it would seem. I started my Leica ownership with an M6TTL and then added M7s to that camera. I didn't even consider an MP, and without wishing to offend anyone here I don't see the point of the camera. If I wanted a classic type camera I would buy a used M6 at less than 1/2 the price of an MP. But I like modern camera bodies so I chose the M6TTL with the express intention of eventually moving on to an M7 if I liked the rangefinder experience.

The M7 is a very practical camera with a highly accurate meter. I am not ashamed to say I use the AE most of the time, the only exception being back-lit scenes. I carry a small light-weight incident light meter with me everywhere just for such dodgy light situations. I'm really happy with the M7 as a working camera and would like to get another one but the funds won't allow that for a long time. I say go M7...

 

[thmk]

Hallo Thorsten,
willkommen im Forum 🙂

I would also go the separate way. One camera for manual work and one for snapshots. FrankS already said everything for the manual part but for snapshots I would go for a nice Konica Hexar AF if a fixed 35mm lens is sufficient.

Cheers
Thomas-Michael

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I agree with Frank and TM. 😉 The routes they suggested would leave you room to get some nice glass to go on whichever M camera you decided on...and the glass is actually more important than the camera wearing it. The body itself is only a case for the film.

 

[FrankS]

BUT there is lots to be said about holding a nice body! 😉 Leicas are very nice.

 

[darkkavenger]

Hello Thorsten, my background is a bit similar to yours, and I have been considering to get a MP if one day I was to get a Leica. or an earlier M6 etc.. 🙂 I think one can survive without TTL and batteries 😉

 

[richard_l]

I think of the MP as what the M6 would be like if it were built like an M3. I like the M6 just as it is, likewise the M3. The MP just seems superfluous to me, although is an attractive option to the M6. On the other hand, the M7 is a logical development of the M6. Personally, I'm not at all interested in the M7, but for those who feel a need for AE, this may be the way to go. There is more practical justification for the M7 than for the MP.

 

[DerekF]

Welcome Thorsten!

Practically speaking, the M7 is probably going to suit you better for snapshots and for those times when the lighting significantly changes between shots since it has AE.

That being said, I wouldn't give up my MP for anything else (including the M7 or any of the other fine used alternatives that others have suggested). The light meter is stupidly easy to use and I don't think I've ever missed a shot due to my fiddling with the settings, but I suppose it also depends on your shooting style, too. Get yourself a nice 35mm lens set to hyperfocal distance and all you need to worry about is setting the exposure on your MP when you're out shooting snapshots of your kids at play. If you can guess the exposure beforehand (even roughly), then the M7 doesn't save you all that much time, so you can have the "all-mechanical" construction of the MP and the speed/ease of use you want at the same time.

Either way, I don't think you can go wrong with whichever option you choose. A lot of Leica users seem to have somewhat of an emotional attachment to their gear, so if you like the camera enough, you'll eventually learn to overcome whatever "shortcomings" it may have.

Good luck!

 

[Mackinaw]

I faced the same choice back in November, 2004 and went with the MP. I prefer setting apertures and shutter speeds as I wish and not relying on the camera to set an exposure which may or may not be correct.

A lot depends on the kind of photography that you do. I like street photography with B&W film. My technique is to pre-focus and pre-meter, adjust exposure as necessary, and snap away. As crazy as it seems, I think using the MP has made me a better photograper. The pics in my gallery were largely taken with my MP, all in the past 14 months or so.

Jim Bielecki

 

[rich815]

"...I do not have the self-discipline to use the cam in manual mode..."

This is a problem I have too. Which is why I chose the MP. Even though I know that when I am lazy and use the AE on any other camera I get worse results I still cannot help myself and fall back on the AE all the time. With the MP I have no choice and must "think" more. When I think more I always get better photos.

 

[vizioneer]

The point of an MP? The point of a non-autofocus rangefinder? Where does it end? As far as metering goes, I find that usually I set the aperture and shutter speed when I'm going to take some photos and don't find manual exposure to be much of a constraint to taking quick photos. Focus is usually the constraining factor, but can get good at that too.

If I were you, since you don't want to be a slave to the camera, get the MP.

 

[thodo]

Thank you for your replies so far.

Well, you really helped me out, though it became a totally different way than I expected. I am pretty sure, that I would choose the MP, BUT... it is absolutely right, that - for a M-beginner - it would be a great decision to save some money, take up a M6 and instead buy some more (or better) glass. So this is what I am planning now. As I saw, there are even some "brand new" M6 sold; perhaps I will look at one of these.

Please let me ask one more question: I am looking for a 0.85-viewfinder, because I really don't need the 28-frameline. When I will have a wideangle-lens, this would be the 24 or 21, so I will need an external viewfinder anyway. Does something speak against a 0.85-viewfinder then?

Thanks a lot,
Thorsten

 

[vizioneer]

A .85 viewfinder is probably great for a 50mm lens on up (as long as you don't wear glasses). I think an older M body is a smart idea, as glass is always the priority (to me). Good luck!

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Bist du photokrank, Thorsten?

Welcome then! We're too! 🙂

Now... the 0.85 magnification VF is hard to come by... and kinda limiting unless you already know you're going to use long lenses (like 90 and 135). I'd tell you to go for an M6TTL or an older M6 with the 0.72 viewfinder. Think of the future. The 0.72 it's the standard magnification, flexible enough in case you change your mind about wides because it allows the use of all focal lengths (with its limitations, of course. Some complain of the size of the 28mm framelines; I don't).

As for wanting to do the mechanical thing... Yes, the M6 or its TTL variant will do, and you'll soon get used to changing apertures or shutterspeeds quickly, according to your needs. If not, you can always trust on the film's latitude (wider if it's print, not so if it's slide).

In other words, an M6, M6TTL or MP with the 0.72 VF will do fine for your photo habits.

 

[MP Guy]

very simple. MP 🙂 less things to break excellent camera! If you want the features of the M& get the digital M when out 🙂

 

[dmchadderton]

Thorsten,

Until I had all my gear stolen recently I had a M7 with a Tri-Elmar. I went through the same decision process as you but chose the M7 because I felt I needed AE.

I loved the M7 but after buying a handheld meter (a Sekonic 308S) my photography style changed - I was no longer a slave to the red LEDs in the vf and started to understand exposure much better. My point is that eventually I longed for the mechanical MP, with no reliance on batteries (sometimes, the M7's 1/60 & 1/125 isn't good enough!). The MP also felt better to hold.

I'm glad I chose the 0.72 though, as I prefer wider lenses than longer ones - the 0.58 just seems a little too 'imprecise' - the 0.72 is a good compromise between frames and magnification.

Having lost it all recently, a small part of me regrets not listening to those well-meaning experts who suggested I buy a s/h M6 ... that's probably what you should do if you can't really afford to lose the cost of a new M7 and new Tri-Elmar !! Look for a mint (0.85) M6 (TTL) with a new 50/2.8 Elmar ... Have a look on RFF for Trevor's thread, showing his outstanding results using that exact setup.

 

[mervynyan]

I acquired a new MP 0.72 Black with Carl Zeiss 50/f2 two week ago. I made a point of skipping M7. M7 is good but SLR can do all it can do years ago. I see no point to replicate my Olympus E1, which I love. MP on the other hand, you have to think about few seconds. I am slow...-🙂. The only thing I have argued is that the shutter dial is stiff and small, I have to look at it to adjust. Because of that, I sort of became shooting shuter priority, don't want to change shutter speed often... That again, if you do a lot of work, keep at least one SLR in your bag, or a Olympus Epic for snap photos...

 

[Ken F.]

Hello Thorsten,

A week ago, I was in the exact same position as you are at the moment.
I have just purchased a Chrome MP from Tony Rose, owner of PopFlash Photo, one of the RFF's sponsor's. He comes highly recommended from me, a great guy to deal with, I look forward to receiving my new baby!
I am currently using an R2a, which I like very much, but I have always shot manual anyway and have never used the AP program once.

Regards,
kf