Please help me to decide - MP or M7 ??

[hoot]

When I will have a wideangle-lens, this would be the 24 or 21, so I will need an external viewfinder anyway.

An M body with an accessory viewfinder is a huge beast.

Since you're new to rangefinders, and don't shoot on commission, I would stick with one focal length, and learn how to use it perfectly before considering adding another to your repertoire.

If you can, borrow a 35 and a 50, and see which one better corresponds to how you see the world. If the 35 is a tad too wide and the 50 a tad too long, consider a 40mm.

The appropriate body for the 40mm would be a Bessa R3a (if you need a meter and auto-exposure), a Leica M2 (if you need a camera that will outlive you) or a Leica CL (if you need a camera that you can stick in your pocket). In the case of the M2, the 35mm lines can safely be used to approximate the 40mm field of view.

As FrankS said, the M3 is probably the best body for 50mm. You can teach yourself the Sunny-16 rule and carry a small pocketable meter (such as the Gossen Digisix) for difficult situations. And you can shoot with both eyes open, if you're right-eyed.

The MP and M7 are so expensive, I'd be afraid to use them in case they got stolen. I'd rather spend the money on film, developer and paper.

 

[brightsky]

What FrankS, TM, and Stephanie said. MP with a digital P&S.

Another angle not brought up as of this writing and nothing to do with the mechanical vs AE debate.

Will the electronic circuit board of the M7 still be in use for the rest of your lifetime?

I see you chose an MP - good decision. Get a small ambient meter to tuck in your pocket and you're all set. 🙂

 

[Nick R.]

Thorsten,
I assume you can afford it since you asked the question. My answer then is "Why not the best?" The MP is the best mechanical 35mm camera that you can buy new. Buy it and be happy.

 

[peter_n]

Good decision, Thorsten. To speak to your question I have a 0.85 M and highly recommend it for lenses >=50mm. Highly. I also have a 0.72 mag cam and highly recommend that for lenses <=35mm. Do you tend to the wides or to the normal plus? That should help you decide on a magnification.

The framelines are not just there to tell you where the edge of the negative might be. With an RF camera you use the framelines to demarcate the scene inside the frame from what's happening outside it, which you can also see in the viewfinder if you have the appropriate magnification for your lens. The ability of the RF viewfinder to provide context for the action inside the framelines is a fundamental difference between a rangefinder and an SLR.

 

[John]

No one ever thought that Leica would again produce a camera as high in quality as the MP. These can be had with many of the desireable features that have been unavailable for many years. Lots more people want the MP than can afford one. I bought an M3 now because I did not want to wait until I could afford an MP. Many others are shooting with lesser cameras for this same reason.
Read some Cameraquest articles, think it over, and hopefully go for the gusto. Good luck. 🙂

 

[tomelee]

Mp

Mp

I like the MP. It is a better made camera than the M-6. I have uesed Leica M cameras for over twenty years. The M-3 is well made but slow to load. I sold my M-4 to buy an M-6 for the light meter. I sold my M-6 TTL to get the MP I did not like the M-6 TTL. I think the MP is as well made as the M-3.
Sincerely, Tom

http://www.thepaseo.com/tomlee/index.html

 

[Stephanie Brim]

BUT there is lots to be said about holding a nice body! 😉 Leicas are very nice.

Well yes...kind of like a good woman, really...or man, if you're so inclined. 😛

 

[agoglanian]

i much prefer to hold the body of a lovely woman over a man any day.

is it wrong to cuddle with your camera while you sleep?

 

[vizioneer]

It's quite alright to fondle your Leicas, and clean and polish them. 😀

I personally think the MP is the finest mechanical 35mm body ever made. I've owned an M2, played with an M3 for a week or so, and have owned M6 TTL's, and think the MP is the best quality. It's quite simply the best design and build- a modern interpretation and build of a classic sorta camera. Computers, CNC machines, materials, etc. all make it so.

 

[richard_l]

When you compare the cost of an M2 or M3 in mint condition with an MP, the inescapable conclusion is that the MP must have an devastatingly expensive built-in meter. While it is amusing to note how passionately the MP folks urge others to buy an MP, one wonders about their motivation. The M6 is probably a tougher camera (steel gears instead of brass, designed to withstand the stress of motorized film advance) and will certainly take the same quality pictures as the MP. Moreover, the M6TTL has TTL flash metering, which is lacking on the MP.

 

[Alec]

There seems to be many more M7s than MPs on the second hand market. So people hold on their MPs. The sandpaper-like covering is not something I'd like, though.

 

[regit]

While the M7 has AE, there are situations where the AE is not as "quick" as I has hope for; the 1/1000 top speed seems to be rather limiting for AE (under the harsh sunlight of Perth). Also, under certain changing lighting condition, the MP (M6) may be faster ... For overall shooting experience, the M7 is still faster.

Beyond the non/automated metering, both cameras are great. In the "mechanical" range and between the M6 and MP, there're very little between the two in term of functionalities, but the cosmetics and egonormics are different and it can be crucial to a lot of people... Hey, if you're gonna to spend thousands on a camera, what's wrong with getting something that appeals to you visually and aesthetically 🙂

 

[thodo]

Thanks again for your replies. It is really a delight that I found this great forum.

I just wanted to keep you up to date with "my search for my first ever M-Leica". 😀 As I was looking around for a mint conditioned M6, I came across an official Leica-dealer, who seems to sell cameras more as a hobby than business. As he offers a "brand-new" M6, I called him today and it followed a nice conversation in which he tried to find out, which would be the perfect Leica for me. As we talked, he told me, that he just got a MP in, which comes from a collector. The MP is unused (bought a year ago) and was only lying in a showcase at the collector's home; even the batteries weren't touched so far. The dealer offered me the MP for only a little more than the M6 (about 2300 $ including 16% European VAT). What do you think? As far as I know Leica-prices, this seems to be a great offer! I am totally enthusiastic at the moment and think, I barely won't be able not to take it. 🙄

Regards,
Thorsten

 

[JohnL]

I use the M7 mostly in a Luigi half-case that does not have the cut-out to access the exposure compensation dial. Therefore, whenever AE needs to be overridden, I switch to manual rather than remove the case. Maybe this is a solution to the "mental discipline" issue!

 

[matti]

Hi Thorsten,
Of course you will be really happy with the MP. I feel just like you when it comes to AE. It makes me lazy and it affects the pictures.

But $2400 seems like a lot of money compared to a M6. I just bought mine used, but with only a tiny ammount of scraches on the bottom and top plate, for about $1000. And that included box, manual, original strap in box and passport and a Voigtländer Color Skopar 35mm/2.5. If the camera hadn't had these tiny scraches I wouldn't have the guts to carry it in the pocket of my padded winter jacket when I go to work.

But of course $2400 is a good price compared to new.

What lens are you planning to buy?

regards/Matti

Thanks again for your replies. It is really a delight that I found this great forum.

I just wanted to keep you up to date with "my search for my first ever M-Leica". 😀 As I was looking around for a mint conditioned M6, I came across an official Leica-dealer, who seems to sell cameras more as a hobby than business. As he offers a "brand-new" M6, I called him today and it followed a nice conversation in which he tried to find out, which would be the perfect Leica for me. As we talked, he told me, that he just got a MP in, which comes from a collector. The MP is unused (bought a year ago) and was only lying in a showcase at the collector's home; even the batteries weren't touched so far. The dealer offered me the MP for only a little more than the M6 (about 2400 $). What do you think? As far as I know Leica-prices, this seems to be a great offer! I am totally enthusiastic at the moment and think, I barely won't be able not to take it. 🙄

Regards,
Thorsten

 

[vizioneer]

Well I guess I can't say the MP is *better* than the M2 or M3 in retrospect, just products of different eras in manufacturing perhaps. Yah, a mint M2 or M3 is awesome no doubt. The prices for new Leica gear in general is amazing, I got my MP from a collector and it hadn't been used and was at a good price- $2100. I bought my 35 lux asph from popflash as a gray market item. I definitely try to buy smarter, and the M2 or M3 are certainly awesome alternatives if you don't mind using a hand meter.

 

[Ben Z]

I can't help you with the M7, other than to say that making quick photos of kids the problem is focusing not exposure. If the light is fairly steady and you're shooting print film, the exposure won't change just because the kids move around. Focus will change, and unless you're using a small aperture and/or wide lens, you may get breathless trying to keep up!

As to the MP, I had one, and while it was a nice camera it didn't do anything my M4 doesn't do except the built-in meter. So I sold it and bought two M6 classics in goog working order, plus a 28mm lens, for the money I got in the sale. Two bodies and a lens solve some photographic situations for me that one MP, beautiful and retro as it was, did not.

 

[mervynyan]

Thanks again for your replies. It is really a delight that I found this great forum.

I just wanted to keep you up to date with "my search for my first ever M-Leica". 😀 As I was looking around for a mint conditioned M6, I came across an official Leica-dealer, who seems to sell cameras more as a hobby than business. As he offers a "brand-new" M6, I called him today and it followed a nice conversation in which he tried to find out, which would be the perfect Leica for me. As we talked, he told me, that he just got a MP in, which comes from a collector. The MP is unused (bought a year ago) and was only lying in a showcase at the collector's home; even the batteries weren't touched so far. The dealer offered me the MP for only a little more than the M6 (about 2300 $ including 16% European VAT). What do you think? As far as I know Leica-prices, this seems to be a great offer! I am totally enthusiastic at the moment and think, I barely won't be able not to take it. 🙄

Regards,
Thorsten

thodo, i just sent you a message.

ciao,

mervyn

 

[35mmdelux]

The MP towers over the M7 IMO. There are many documented cases of M7 failure in the field. Dead battery equals dead camera.

Avoid the .85 at all costs, unless the 50mm or bigger is ALL you'll ever use. Its that simple. The 35mm framlines on the .85 stink. And external VF slows you down BIG TIME. You will lose many shots.

My suggestion is to try to stick w/ the .72. It is more of a general camera and will take any lens, except the really wides that need external VF. In the end you will be more flexible.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

It is always interesting to see what people take account of in their choices. I have an M6 0.72, M6 TTL 0.85, M7 0.72. When I bought the M7 I reckoned that with all of my manual cameras that it would be nice to have the AE option, when I wanted it. Well, in the world of old dogs and new tricks, I find that I use my M7 like I use my M6 and that I can't bring myself to rely on the AE all that much. It's comical really as there was no reason to buy the M7 if the AE was never going to be used.

The M6 is a fine camera. I would look for a used M6 TTL in 0.85 magnification. I bought mine for $1,000 in mint condition and I am sure that the thing will still be snapping away for many years. The advantage of buying a used M6 is that you can sell it for around what you paid for it, if it doesn't turn out to be your cup of tea. With brand new equipt. you always take that initial hit, just for putting the first 100 rolls of film through. It's like driving a new car off the lot.


Whatever you decide on, enjoy it. The Leicas are really well made tools compared to the other choices out there and the design is one that has proved quite durable.