Please recommend me a Rangefinder + Lens for $1000 budget.

Bosk

Make photos, not war.
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Hey there,

This is my first post on these forums so please go easy on a newbie. 🙂


I'm currently using a Nikon DSLR but have been wanting to own using a rangefinder for a long time and have decided to take the plunge.

My intended uses will be candid photography and the odd landscape, and my initial budget is roughly US$1000.

I'm looking for both a rangefinder body and a lens, my preference is for the 50mm focal length to start out with.
Only requirements are that the body has aperture priority or is very easy to handle exposure with (I've never used a RF before, after all) and that the lens is f2 or faster and has very good bokeh.

I'd love to hear your suggestions of which combinations to consider, either used or new. My early research has led me in the direction of a Bessa R3 and a Voightlander lens of some kind but I'm open to all ideas.

In particularly I'm keen on hearing how much % you think I should invest in lens/body. 50/50 perhaps?


Thanks for your help, great forum you have here incidentally. 😉
 
R2M/R3M is the clear choice, I'd say if you want NEW

USED : M3 + lens

other used. . . Konica Hexar AF (but it IS AF)
 
Bosk said:
Thanks for the replies so far.

So what would be the pros/cons of a used M3 as opposed to a R2M or R3M?
Cheers.

M3 is a rock. Will last forever. Better built than the R2M. Lacks many of the r2M's features, though (M3 has no internal meter).

There will always be Leica specialists in the world.

Benefits of the R2M? Great value. Will take lots of lenses.
 
As part of one of your requirements is "aperture priority" the m3 lacks that feature. FWIW Id say get a cannonet ql17 and save the $900 to see if you enjoy shooting with a rf. Just make sure its a good working one.
 
I'd go for the m2, rather than the m3. more usable framelines

I think the new r2m is a very solid camera too... it can be bought w/o lens at photovillage.com for 500 or so.
 
For AE shooting, how about a Minolta CLE with 28, 40 and 90mm lenses? Get a Leica, Zeiss, or R3/2 later and use the lenses.

I have a CL and if I had to do it all over I'd probably get a R3A and 40/1.4. Hard to to beat the CL and the 40/2 lens for performance and size. It has to peg the corner of the envelope when it comes to portability, performance and price.

The Canonet is also an excellent suggetion to start out.

Mark
 
Hexar RF + 50/2 hexanon can be also found for less than 1000$

🙂 : aperture priority, integrated motor drive, excellent build, black, you can see 28mm framelines with glasses, 1/4000, long battery life

😡 : integrated motor drive (= noise), small magnification in viewfinder
 
Edit: Crap, I wrote a book. Sorry. Can't tell I'm passionate about rangefinders, can you?

Disclaimer: This is a bit of opinion regarding what I think on the topic of the best starter rangefinder. Please look it over and feel free to comment, but don't hate me for what I say, mmkay? 🙂

What is your definition of good bokeh? That one is a tough one for others to decide for you. Your perception of 'very good bokeh' may be different than mine. I love the bokeh I get with my Jupiter-3.

A first rangefinder... Have you used a manual focus SLR before? Have you used a camera without a meter before? Would you be okay with a handheld meter instead of an in-camera meter? Is aperture priority really that important to you?

Before looking at the list of cameras I give, answer those questions. I think that aperture priority spoils the photographer. It can be good in a pinch and save you when you're just starting out, but as a rule it isn't something that you should get in the habit of using all the time. It doesn't teach you to read light very well and if you find yourself in a situation where it will fail you (and you will), always using AP mode will undoubtedly put you into the position of not knowing what to do and missing the shot. In other words, I do not recommend AP cameras to beginners because it is much better to learn how to read light effectively WITHOUT the help of AP early on.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

There are other factors to keep in mind as well. Invariably, aperture priority equipped cameras need batteries to provide that function. When the batteries go out, no more aperture priority. AP cameras also generally have an electronically-controlled shutter. Again, when the batteries die, cameras usually have one or two speeds that they fall back on. Those speeds are NOT convenient when shooting in a dimly lit bar. A camera with a mechanical shutter will not have these problems, but you're left with the drawback that it will not be quite as accurate as an electronically-controlled shutter, but the difference isn't enough in practice to really matter.

When speaking of lenses, it depends which way you want to go. The two easiest mounts to find lenses for would be the Leica screwmount and the Leica M-mount. Which way you go will depend on your shooting style and, regardless of what people say, how much money you have in the bank. Neither system is really cheap and both have their advantages.

Screwmount cameras and lenses tend to be cheaper and you'll get a very satisfying softness with most of the lenses. There are some cracking lenses for the screwmount cameras, but they tend to be the pricier ones. If you go with a camera such as the Bessa R you immediately have access to quite a few good lenses in the Cosina-Voigtlander library. The body goes for about $200 and the lenses I'd start out with (the 35/1.7 Ultron and the 50/1.5 Nokton) will set you back your $1000. If you don't want the speed of those lenses, the 35/2.5 and 50/2.5 Skopars are very good cheaper alternatives. You'd have plenty of money for a very nice handheld meter left over.

Going the way of the M-mount, a used M3 (if you plan to shoot longer lenses) or an M2 (if you plan to shoot a 35mm) would be a good choice for a first camera. They're incredibly durable and even though they bear the Leica name you won't be spending your entire life savings to get one. As for a lens? Summicron 50/2. Type 4 if you can find it. This will go over your thousand dollar budget, but you'll undoubtably be decently happy with your investment. Going that route, though, you'd need a handheld meter. There's also the R2A/R2M. The first has aperture priority and an electronic shutter and the second has a mechanical shutter and no aperture priority. Both, however, have an electronically-controlled battery-powered meter. In my opinion, the R2M is a better buy because when the batteries go you only lose the meter, but if you're set on aperture priority the R2A would be the way to go. Pair it with the same 50/2.5 and 35/2.5 as the R with some adapters and you'll be slightly over your budget and have all the kit you'll need for quite some time.

And now for my own shooting set: A Canon P with 35/50/85 Russian lenses, a Sekonic meter, a hood for the 35/50 that doubles as a series 6 filter adapter, and various series 6 black and white filters. That setup would run you about $500 if you look hard enough.

Anyway, this has gone on long enough. Just remember: this is all my own opinion and nothing in it accounts for anyone else's preferences.
 
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Given the budget and the AE requirement, I would have to agree with those who suggested the Bessa combo. Perfect kit, brand new and plenty of room to grow with it.

If you don't like it, you can take a very small hit and resell it.
 
I held a modern Voightlander once, flipped it over and saw Cosina written on the bottom, Sad. I then left the shop and drove across town to another shop and bought a second hand Contax G2 for the same price as a new Voightlander. Sorry Voightlander fans.
 
Get a Canon Model P / Canon 35/ 2 or 50/ 1.4 lens and meter (gossen digisix, luna pro). Never lose any $$$ due to depreciation and have the best/most reliable combo.

With the handheld meter, you can do your own aperture priority.
 
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This link showed up yesterday, gives a graphic representaion of what you can expect from some fast 35-50mm lenses. While it was based around use with an RD-1, I'm sure it gives a fair comparison of performance. In my opinion, it makes many of CV's products look tempting even if you had a fat wallet!
 
Bosk said:
Only requirements are that the body has aperture priority or is very easy to handle exposure with (I've never used a RF before, after all) and that the lens is f2 or faster and has very good bokeh.

With aperture priority in mind, I'd recommend the Voigtlander Bessa R2A or R3A. Well priced about about $550 (new). Excellent build quality, great cameras, and AE lets you work very fast at the aperture of your choice. That's half your budget.

Lens? A lot of choices here. If you are leaning towards the R3A, then a good 40mm would complement it well. Leica 40/2 summicron-c, Minolta 40/2 rokkor-m, cv nokton 40/1.4. In the 50 arena, some older 50/2 summicrons can be had for $500 depending on cosmetic condition. There are the Canon LTM 50/1.5, 50/1.4, 50/1.2, all great glass with a LTM adapter to your bessa.

I'd suggest www.cameraquest.com for more information in general about RF cameras and lenses. There are sections on Leica mount possibilities covering virtually all lenses I"ve mentioned above.

good luck
 
Just get a Yashica Electro 35. Great optics, Aperture priority, quite cheap (50-100$ should do). So you can check it you get happy with a rangefinder, if so,
you can look out for a used M6 and combine it with a elmar 2.8/50 collapsible...
Good luck!
andreas
 
Bosk said:
Thanks for the replies so far.

So what would be the pros/cons of a used M3 as opposed to a R2M or R3M?
Cheers.

You stated you wanted aperture priority as a requirement, so I'm not quite sure why everyone is recommending the M2/M3/R2M/R3M 's. Those cameras don't fit that requirement.

The M3 is a great camera, but it lacks your AE requirement.

As for the fallacy that AE cameras are battery-dependent, and therefore, somehow more suspect than purely manual cameras ... let me remind you that your car needs gas, your house needs heat, your cell phone needs batteries, your lights need electricity, your body needs food, and I'm guessing that you are not typing on a battery-independent computer when you post 😉

In other words, battery-dependency is neither a selling point nor a negative. If you can pack enough food for a trip to keep from dying, I'm sure you can pack enough batteries to keep from running out of energy for your camera :angel:
 
Bosk said:
...My intended uses will be candid photography and the odd landscape, and my initial budget is roughly US$1000. I'm looking for both a rangefinder body and a lens, my preference is for the 50mm focal length to start out with. Only requirements are that the body has aperture priority

One answer for the camera: Bessa R2A or R3a - as the R2M, R3M recommended in former posts have no AE. The R3a has a finder with 1:1 magnification - so if you use the 50mm lens mostly I'd recommend this body. The R2a with it's smaller magn. would be recommended if you intend to use the 35mm lens often, too.

Lens: it's depending on your needs in term of speed, compactness, contrast, bokeh and so on. The 50/1.5 Voigtlander Nokton would fit in your budget. The 50/2 Summicron is available below $500, at least with some luck on the auction site (I had one for $440). The collapsible 50 Summicron goes for even less. And there are a lot of older 50mm lenses with Leica screw mount which could be used with an adapter, amongst them Canon (1.2, 1.4, 1.8 versions), Nikkor (1.4, 2.0 versions). Cameraquest has some useful lens guides here: Leica M, Leica LTM

Didier
 
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