Police Threatened to Arrest Me for Taking Their Photo Last Night

[daveleo]

"Bad apples" is a good analogy, but when you have to deal with one bad apple you just think the whole barrel is full of these.
When a policeman is a hero, they are all heroes.
When one of them is an a$$hole, they are all a$$holes.

You'd think that they themselves would toss out the bad apples.

 

[ferider]

let's keep world politics out of this thread, please...

The OP was political to begin with, Joe:

This is just sad. What is the United States turning in to??

1) we don't know if the story in "The Stranger" is true.
2) if it is, the report itself says "the SPD has already initiated an investigation into SPD officer Marion; I got a call this afternoon from an investigator for the SDP's Office of Professional Accountability." This is the day after the incident, so the system works, no ?

Constant fear mongering like this is political in itself. And I'm not sure it belongs into "Photography General Interest". See also the threads:

- "The War Against Photography is Growing Alongside the Use of Security Cameras"
- "Detroit Newspaper Photographer Arrested While Covering Police Action"

There are bad cops out there. We get it. There are good ones, too:

Roland.

 

[semilog]

I sincerely doubt any Policeman would then step into a private company office and run those risk–this is a ignorant officer issue rather than the rule IMO

1) we don't know if the story in "The Stranger" is true.
2) if it is, the report itself says "the SPD has already initiated an investigation into SPD officer Marion; I got a call this afternoon from an investigator for the SDP's Office of Professional Accountability." This is the day after the incident, so the system works, no ?

This is anything but an isolated incident.

As the linked article points out, the Seattle Police Department is currently being supervised by a federal magistrate following legal action by the US Department of Justice over systematic abuses. The DoJ report (PDF) that was pivotal in initiating this chain of events was blunt: "starting from the top, SPD supervisors often fail to meet their responsibility to provide oversight of the use of force."

We find that SPD engages in a pattern or practice of unnecessary or excessive force, in violation of the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution and Section 14141. We base our legal conclusion on numerous factual findings, including the following:

 When SPD officers use force, they do so in an unconstitutional manner nearly 20% of the time. This finding (as well as the factual findings identified below) is not based on citizen reports or complaints. Rather, it is based on a review of a randomized, stratified, and statistically valid sample of SPD’s own internal use of force reports completed by officers and supervisors.

 SPD officers too quickly resort to the use of impact weapons, such as batons and flashlights. Indeed, we find that, when SPD officers use batons, 57% of the time it is either unnecessary or excessive.

 SPD officers escalate situations and use unnecessary or excessive force when arresting individuals for minor offenses. This trend is pronounced in encounters with persons with mental illnesses or those under the influence of alcohol or drugs. This is problematic because SPD estimates that 70% of use of force encounters involve these populations.

 Multiple SPD officers at a time use unnecessary or excessive force together against a single subject. Of the excessive use of force incidents we identified, 61% of the cases involved more than one officer.

 In any given year, a minority of officers account for a disproportionate number of use of force incidents. Over the more than two-year period reviewed, 11 officers used force 15 or more times, and 31 officers used force 10 or more times. In 2010, just 20 officers accounted for 18% of all force incidents. Yet, SPD has no effective supervisory techniques to better analyze why these officers use force more than other officers, whether their uses of force are necessary, or whether any of these officers would benefit from additional use of force training.

That's not all, but it should suffice to provide some sense of the report's contents.

So no, "the system" has emphatically not been "working." Want more? The SPD officer in question is still on the streets as a Sergeant despite a dozen sustained misconduct complaints. That's a problem with management.

Similarly, King County Sheriff's Department officers (also involved in this incident) also have a history of essentially stalking and systematically harassing critics. None of this is hypothetical. The threat to go to someone's workplace and hassle him has teeth, in this town.

Also worth noting: Eli Sanders, another reporter for The Stranger, received the Pulitzer Prize for feature reporting last year. Dominic Holden, the writer whose blog entry initiated this thread, is the News Editor there. Not bad for an alternative weekly, and not readily dismissed.

 

[semilog]

Oh, and one more thing.

Constant fear mongering like this is political in itself.

I would, with all due respect, ask that you retract your unsupported and insulting assertion that this is "fear mongering" -- at least, until you understand the context within which the present discussion was initiated, and (preferably) have read the DoJ report on the SPD [pdf].

 

[ferider]

I would, with all due respect, ask that you retract your unsupported and insulting assertion that this is "fear mongering" -- at least, until you understand the context within which the present discussion was initiated, and (preferably) have read the DoJ report on the SPD [pdf].

I will not "retract" anything. I didn't judge the specific incident quoted by the OP or talk about the SPD. I was addressing the OP for generalizing to the "United States". And this is recent thread #3 of the same poster with similar generalizations. I've been in several situations where I was glad that Police was around. In the United States, not in Seattle. Enuff said.

 

[mansio]

police are around because they are paid to do so, not because they are nice, it a fallacy that people often draw when making protective claims to policeman in general it's boring to even mention again. while i am not going to say we are their employers but tax payers' money are what paying them in exchange for the service in keeping the actual rotten egg out harming innocent people.

they are supposed to be nice to everyone other than criminal, and being nice is part of the social construct everyone runs on. also the law stated that we are innocent until proven guilty and this role is dictated by the judge (not dredd 😛)

can't say there are nice policemen around, but they give anyone years to deal with gangsters and troubled people not a lot will maintain sanity. but that's part of the job description and the pay are there for that.

 

[Addy101]

I would like to point to the following paragraph:
"The county sheriff's office has asked me to file a complaint, and I intend to. Solely based on my questions about the incident, the SPD has already initiated an investigation into SPD officer Marion; I got a call this afternoon from an investigator for the SDP's Office of Professional Accountability. I'm going to write about going through the process—and see if these disciplinary programs mean anything."

So, the sheriff's office and Seattle Police Department both took the situation serious and act accordingly. This story should be about a sheriff's office and police department that is trying to improve. It will be a long road ahead based on what I read, but they are of good will. The real story imho is the struggle of the organisation to improve.

I find that this Dominic Holden is a bit to involved to write a balanced article. To answer the question put forward: "What is the United States turning in to??" It is improving, these days police departments are aware of their responsibility it seems. 😎

 

[35mmdelux]

Mix it up with the cops and you might end up getting punked. No surprises here.

 

[Ronald M]

Local cops near Chicago just tazed a 96 year old man and shot him with bean bag round in a shotgun. The bean bag did enough damage he bleed to death internally in the hospital.

He was in his room in an assisted living facility and the were 6 or 7 cops in full riot gear and they could not handle him any other way.

So the correct words are yes sir, turn and leave. Would will not win.

 

[noisycheese]

I will not "retract" anything. I didn't judge the specific incident quoted by the OP or talk about the SPD. I was addressing the OP for generalizing to the "United States". And this is recent thread #3 of the same poster with similar generalizations. I've been in several situations where I was glad that Police was around. In the United States, not in Seattle. Enuff said.

The reason I made reference to the United States is: Because that's where I live. As a citizen of the U.S., I have skin in the game; that gives me standing to comment on the actions of The Police and their actions here in the U.S. It seems that this point would be obvious.

Yes, this is the third article regarding abuse of power against photographers by The Police that I have posted. So what??

The fact remains that if The Police were not abusing their authority and unlawfully maltreating/coercing/badgering and infringing the rights of photographers, I would not have posted the articles - because they would not have been written.

Regarding the three threads in question, all I did was to pass along the news reports of the facts as they were reported by various news outlets. If there are those who do not like the facts, that is their issue - however, they are specific facts regarding the incidents. They are not so-called "generalizations." 🙄

We cannot bury our heads in the sand and hope that this problem will magically disappear - because it won't. Turning a blind eye to unlawful conduct by police officers and hoping they won't do it again is a fool's errand.

The only way to even begin to put an end to the abuse of photographers by The Police is to continually shine the light of public exposure on the unlawful acts of these unprofessional supposed peace officers who operate outside the constraints of the law.

If we can't get them to see the light, we can make them feel the heat. This is the only way there will be any change for the better.

 

[colyn]

I'm really surprised that people are having so many problems with the law. Not saying that it doesn't happen. Never witnessed any problems except for police v bad guys.. Watched a man get tazed 4 times before the cop had to put several rounds in his chest to stop him.

I've never had a run-in with the law and I have taken many images of police in action. My problems have been with rent-a-cops who seem to think they are the law..

 

[clayne]

I'm really surprised that people are having so many problems with the law.

Have you been living under a rock? Police injustices against photographers (or other people doing nothing illegal) is the actual norm.

Police state, paramilitary, etc. that's the direction they want to take it. You may think you need to stock up on ammo against some nebulous "bad guys" but you're forgetting there's plenty of them with a badge.

 

[colyn]

Have you been living under a rock? Police injustices against photographers (or other people doing nothing illegal) is the actual norm.

I've traveled all over the country and visited both small towns and large cities and have photographed police activity in many. Never once have I been harrassed by them. As I said previously I've only been harrassed by rent-a-cops..

I don't buy that harrassement is the norm.....most police are good honest people. It's the few bad apples who give the rest a bad rep...

Police state, paramilitary, etc. that's the direction they want to take it. You may think you need to stock up on ammo against some nebulous "bad guys" but you're forgetting there's plenty of them with a badge.

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!

 

[daveleo]

. . . .
What a load of crap!!!!!!!!

+1 for me

(Yikes, did I just agree with someone from Texas ? ? 😀😀😀

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Actually, the militarization of local police departments has been in full swing since the 1980's, maybe even before that.

 

[colyn]

+1 for me

(Yikes, did I just agree with someone from Texas ? ? 😀😀😀

We're always right.. Didn't ya know that... 🙂 🙂 😀 😀

 

[colyn]

Actually, the militarization of local police departments has been in full swing since the 1980's, maybe even before that.

Police departments have been forced to change over the years in part because of the nature of crime and criminals today but there are still many fine law enforcement officers who uphold the law..

 

[noisycheese]

...there are still many fine law enforcement officers who uphold the law...

I would have to agree and say that is true. But it is also true that there is an ever growing problem of police abuse of power which we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to.

I have encountered both sides of the coin in my interactions with police officers. Most have been courteous, decent and professional - but a few have been power tripping, arrogant assholes. In my estimation, this is due to the outlook of the politicians who are essentially in control of the police departments.

As politicians become increasingly self-serving, arrogant and corrupt, the police chiefs who they appoint will follow in their footsteps. As the old saying goes, "A fish rots from the head down."

We need to get to the heart of the matter and face some undeniable facts: Neither politicians or the police are above the law. Both have a set of constraints placed upon them and their activities by the provisions that are written into state law and the U.S. Constitution.

When those constraints are violated, those who break the laws they are paid to uphold must be forced to pay the price, to include loss of their jobs and police powers, prosecution and fines and imprisonment upon conviction.

There is no lawful, ethical or moral reason that the police - whose only reason for existing is to impartially enforce the laws that are in accordance with the U.S. Constitution - should be afforded some sort of special status that places them above the law.

 

[E__WOK]

Local cops near Chicago just tazed a 96 year old man and shot him with bean bag round in a shotgun. The bean bag did enough damage he bleed to death internally in the hospital.

He was in his room in an assisted living facility and the were 6 or 7 cops in full riot gear and they could not handle him any other way.

So the correct words are yes sir, turn and leave. Would will not win.

😎


Apparently, the Warna was using several household items as weapons to fight off the staff. The Chicago Tribune writes that “when police arrived, Warna was threatening staff and paramedics with a metal cane and a 2-foot metal shoehorn.” The officers told him to let go of his cane and shoehorn. He obeyed, but instead picked up what the officers described as a "12-inch butcher type kitchen knife."

The standoff escalated when the officers could not convince Warna to drop the knife. According to the Tribune:

Police continued to demand that Warna surrender and follow their orders and eventually used a Taser on him. That failed to subdue him and he continued to threaten others, the release said. Police then fired bean bag rounds at the man to get him to drop the knife and surrender. He did so and was taken into custody.

 

[mansio]

😎


Apparently, the Warna was using several household items as weapons to fight off the staff. The Chicago Tribune writes that “when police arrived, Warna was threatening staff and paramedics with a metal cane and a 2-foot metal shoehorn.” The officers told him to let go of his cane and shoehorn. He obeyed, but instead picked up what the officers described as a "12-inch butcher type kitchen knife."

The standoff escalated when the officers could not convince Warna to drop the knife. According to the Tribune:

Police continued to demand that Warna surrender and follow their orders and eventually used a Taser on him. That failed to subdue him and he continued to threaten others, the release said. Police then fired bean bag rounds at the man to get him to drop the knife and surrender. He did so and was taken into custody.

can't be more patience with old chap can't they? 6-7 policeman against a 96 years old and all it came down to is tasing? it's really no more convincing really