Ororaro
Well-known
I've been thinking about this ever since I've had my first Leica and now it's time to share it with you.
Did it ever occur to you that all we are is a mere bunch of wannabes? Who in here really has the right to criticize Leica? I will tell you who: The ones that buy their Leica equipment new from an Authorizes dealer.
All the rest of us are simply a bunch of freeriders looking for a free meal.
I've spoken and I'm clear on the issue: People who donn't purchase New just shouldn't be talking and giving advice to what Leica is and should be. In other words, people, put yuor money where your mouth is.
What's your thought on this?
Did it ever occur to you that all we are is a mere bunch of wannabes? Who in here really has the right to criticize Leica? I will tell you who: The ones that buy their Leica equipment new from an Authorizes dealer.
All the rest of us are simply a bunch of freeriders looking for a free meal.
I've spoken and I'm clear on the issue: People who donn't purchase New just shouldn't be talking and giving advice to what Leica is and should be. In other words, people, put yuor money where your mouth is.
What's your thought on this?
Tuolumne
Veteran
I buy both - new and used. What does that make me?
/T
/T
yanidel
Well-known
Well, I hope you never get to run a marketing company ... 
this is what I am in, marketing, and we are taught that above all is VOC. Voice of customer.
Any customer. New, Used, Rental, we need to segment and analyze needs of each of them.
Then we take decisions based on opportunity for each of the customer segments.
So be reinsured, Leica is very interested in what any potential customer voices as their requirements.
I will add that used equipment also drives customer loyalty and therefore future purchases. This is more than a one time only strategy. Leica depends a lot on long term loyalty.
this is what I am in, marketing, and we are taught that above all is VOC. Voice of customer.
Any customer. New, Used, Rental, we need to segment and analyze needs of each of them.
Then we take decisions based on opportunity for each of the customer segments.
So be reinsured, Leica is very interested in what any potential customer voices as their requirements.
I will add that used equipment also drives customer loyalty and therefore future purchases. This is more than a one time only strategy. Leica depends a lot on long term loyalty.
abenner
undecided
Well maybe I'd buy new if they'd build me a new M2. I don't want an M7, MP, M8, or a Panasonic. Guess I'm not sure how that means I want a free meal.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Years ago, before I left the working world to concentrate on art full time, I was a manager at a Walgreen's store. Walgreen's is a large chain of pharmacies in the USA, with more than 5000 stores! When you run a large retail store, you'll notice that lots of customers walk in and look around, then leave empty handed. They were no less a customer than the people who handed over their money, because they would eventually want or need what we offerred, and if we were rude to them we lost that customer's future purchases to CVS, Walmart, Rite-Aid or one of the other stores that sold the same stuff we sold.
Leica is no different. Many people buy the stuff used because they simply cannot afford the prices asked for it new. I know I can't. I couldn't when I made good money at Walgreens, and I sure can't now that I am making half that much as an artist. If I did have the money to buy Leica, I could also afford other high-end equipment like the Canon 1DsIII, the Nikon D3, the Hasselblad H3D. Most customers, when they finally buy something, won't buy it from a company with an attitude that the customers owe them something. The customers owe the company nothing, the company owes the customers or they lose them. Nikon, Canon, and Hasselblad listen to professional photographers (even ones who do not buy their products!) to see what the market wants/needs, then they fill those needs.
Leica is no different. Many people buy the stuff used because they simply cannot afford the prices asked for it new. I know I can't. I couldn't when I made good money at Walgreens, and I sure can't now that I am making half that much as an artist. If I did have the money to buy Leica, I could also afford other high-end equipment like the Canon 1DsIII, the Nikon D3, the Hasselblad H3D. Most customers, when they finally buy something, won't buy it from a company with an attitude that the customers owe them something. The customers owe the company nothing, the company owes the customers or they lose them. Nikon, Canon, and Hasselblad listen to professional photographers (even ones who do not buy their products!) to see what the market wants/needs, then they fill those needs.
spysmart
Established
I've never bought a new Leica body.
Lenses however are a different matter:
When something new comes along that offers a step change in performance, then it's worth paying the premium, rather than wait several years for second hand.
The 35 f/1.4 ASPH was my first ever new lens - from any camera company.
As I could not find any 50 f/1.4 ASPHs second hand it was also new, but I was lucky enough to find a second hand 28 f/2 ASPH.
I sincerely hope the M9 will hit the grade that makes it's worth buying new.
Lenses however are a different matter:
When something new comes along that offers a step change in performance, then it's worth paying the premium, rather than wait several years for second hand.
The 35 f/1.4 ASPH was my first ever new lens - from any camera company.
As I could not find any 50 f/1.4 ASPHs second hand it was also new, but I was lucky enough to find a second hand 28 f/2 ASPH.
I sincerely hope the M9 will hit the grade that makes it's worth buying new.
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
"I buy both - new and used. What does that make me?" /T
Same here (about 50/50).
Six of my twelve Leica lenses were purchased new. The LHSA MP was purchased new while the M8 was purchased through Leica's refurb program (does that count?).
Same here (about 50/50).
Six of my twelve Leica lenses were purchased new. The LHSA MP was purchased new while the M8 was purchased through Leica's refurb program (does that count?).
Bruin
Noktonian
Relax, everyone! Leica has plenty of t-shirts, ball caps, and pens that you can buy brand new from your favorite authorized dealer. Wear it proud - you earned the right!
yanidel
Well-known
Relax, everyone! Leica has plenty of t-shirts, ball caps, and pens that you can buy brand new from your favorite authorized dealer. Wear it proud - you earned the right!
Any chance that they get into the condoms business ??
Livesteamer
Well-known
I started with used Leicas and in 1999 was able to buy a number of new lenses and an M6 .85 non TTL. I hope Leica will listen to buyers of both new and used equipment. I would not consider paying what Leica asks for an M8 but I second the motion for a new M2 at a reasonable price.
Joe
Joe
vieri
Leica Ambassador
I bought most of my Leica gear new, but I also got my 2/35 pre-ASPH IV used, and my 2/90 pre-ASPH used. Bought new: M8, MP, 2.8/24, 1.4/50, 1.4/75, Nocti, CV 4.5/15. Bought used & sold M6, 2.8/21; bought new & sold 1.4/35 ASPH; bought new & sold CV 2.5/35, Zeiss 25, 35, 50. Actual kit: M8, MP, 15 CV, 2.8/24, 2/35, 1.4/50, 1.4/75, 2/90, Nocti.
I wonder: can I say something to Leica, or can't I, or should I calculate the percentage of what I can/cannot say before speaking according to how much I bought new vs used?
Seriously, Ned, I see your point: however, while it's true that buying used isn't giving any money/making any profit directly to Leica, it is indirectly though: if you consider that sellers of used Leica gear would probably end up buying new stuff (sell some gear to fund something else), that buying a used Leica camera will bring to lens sales or camera sales, and so on, I think Leica is happy to see their user base growing - it's profitable in the medium to long term if not in the very short run.
Coming to the poll, you might consider adding a third option for people that do either new & used. I didn't answer the poll as it is because neither options describes me, and I think limiting to these two options would drastically limit the number of people who can honestly answer: how many people never ever bought anything used or anything new at all?
I wonder: can I say something to Leica, or can't I, or should I calculate the percentage of what I can/cannot say before speaking according to how much I bought new vs used?
Seriously, Ned, I see your point: however, while it's true that buying used isn't giving any money/making any profit directly to Leica, it is indirectly though: if you consider that sellers of used Leica gear would probably end up buying new stuff (sell some gear to fund something else), that buying a used Leica camera will bring to lens sales or camera sales, and so on, I think Leica is happy to see their user base growing - it's profitable in the medium to long term if not in the very short run.
Coming to the poll, you might consider adding a third option for people that do either new & used. I didn't answer the poll as it is because neither options describes me, and I think limiting to these two options would drastically limit the number of people who can honestly answer: how many people never ever bought anything used or anything new at all?
bob338
Well-known
"Who in here really has the right to criticize Leica?"
anyone that wants to criticize leica.
anyone that wants to criticize leica.
newsgrunt
Well-known
Leica surely must realize that the price of new gear is helping to drive the used M market. When a new MP costs about $4400 cdn, the choice is pretty clear to most folks. I'd love to buy a spanking new MP but not at those prices. I've been a Leica USER for about 25 years give or take so it's not as if I'm late to the party.
Put it within closer reach and more wallets will open up and they'll move more units.
Put it within closer reach and more wallets will open up and they'll move more units.
yanidel
Well-known
Here you are provoking him again ... but that is ok, I had a good laugh reading your post
bob338
Well-known
"People who donn't purchase New just shouldn't be talking and giving advice to what Leica is and should be. "
i have to disagree with this statement. maybe some of the people who haven't bought new leica gear are waiting for leica to produce what they want to buy. the only way to get them to make the camera you want is to ask them to make it.
some of us can buy anything leica produces but haven't been impressed enough by their recent product to do it.
i have to disagree with this statement. maybe some of the people who haven't bought new leica gear are waiting for leica to produce what they want to buy. the only way to get them to make the camera you want is to ask them to make it.
some of us can buy anything leica produces but haven't been impressed enough by their recent product to do it.
Ororaro
Well-known
whoooo guys, don't take my words too seriously. And please, no geopolitical racist debates.
This is a light thread.
Pitxu, don't go thinking I expressely called you a wannabe. I never take you into account when I write posts for many reasons. You can do/be all you want in life, I swear I won't even notice. Stop it right there... Don't take it personal. A'right? thank you.
This is a light thread.
Pitxu, don't go thinking I expressely called you a wannabe. I never take you into account when I write posts for many reasons. You can do/be all you want in life, I swear I won't even notice. Stop it right there... Don't take it personal. A'right? thank you.
Livesteamer
Well-known
With price being such a major concern, if Leica built a new M2 with a quiet copal square shutter, would anyone buy it. Let's be real, when a Leica shutter is good for 400,000 cycles my first M6 will take 250 years to wear out at my current rate of use. Would Leica users accept a different, less expensive shutter?
Joe
Joe
Bill Blackwell
Leica M Shooter
I think the LHSA MP3 (the last film M incarnation Leica is likely to produce) was the nearest to an M2 we're going to get.
Anupam
Well-known
You missed an option. People who'd buy new if the product met their expectations of price and quality. i.e. potential customers. This segment is important in any company or product, not just Leica. Why aren't those people buying our soap, sodas, cars, cameras is the question companies spend time and energy to address - but your framework just excludes them.
ferider
Veteran
Any advertisement is good advertisement.
When nobody criticizes any more, Leica has a problem.
When nobody criticizes any more, Leica has a problem.