Pollution in China

degruyl said:
Agreed. Although, northern china is not particularly pollution free.
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Yes, the air pollution in northern china when I visited was much much worse than Shanghai.

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In addition to that, a large portion of the energy is derived from the burning of coal, often in open fires.
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It is fairly common in Shanghai to see coal used in smaller restaurants for a fuel source. I'm not sure how polluting this coal is, however. The gas in Shanghai is also all derived from coal.

At the very least, they are attempting to reduce the dependence on small, very dirty, coal fired power plants. ...
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Ironic that one of the methods to do this is the three gorges dam... which has been roundly criticized. China is screwed if it does, and screwed if it doesn't.
 
emraphoto said:
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they eat the feet, we don't. another difference.
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And noses, and ears, and ... well just about everything. I've never seen anything in west that approaches the recycling effort that goes on in China, btw. There are people at every street corner who will _buy_ your junk and bring it to the recycling depots for you. Here in Canada, many people actually _pay_ someone to come pick up our recyclables (which we've payed a deposit on). The recycling depots are so inefficient and slow (at least where I live), that I suspect most people don't bother going and throw out the stuff, despite the loss of a few cents.
 
degruyl said:
Beijing's air was beautiful for the Olympics. Well, for Beijing anyway. (I was transiting, not going to the games).
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I believe that most factories were ordered to shut down in advance of the Olympics.

Beijing also spray-painted the grass green and ordered people to stop spitting so that it could present a better image.

I don't have a problem with Beijing or Shanghai. I always had a great time when I was there. The people are great. The food was interesting in a good way. The regime, however, is another matter.
 
While other countries (Japan) are preparing to , or mumbling about doing something about reducing carbon emissions (USA), China if you believe their propaganda is taking the line that their ecological catastrophes are just the most recent in a long line that includes the killer London fogs, Minamata Disease, LA smog, etc, and China doesn't need to do anything about it because the rest of the world did bad things before and they will take their turn now, so piss off with your green this and that and your carbon reduction schemes. That's another small difference beside knarfing chicken feet.
 
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they also make those super cheap nikes that can be had on the streets of Port Hardcourt. they are great for running from your village as the JTF closes in.

or crossing the immense spills from the local chevron line. keep it off the feet sort of thing.
 
or those noodle packs! yay noodle packs. i mean what else are you going to feed your children when the oil run off from the local shell facility has killed all the fish in the creek?
 
I am wondering what I should say here, how I should comment because I am living here in one of China's factory areas. Ford's and Nike's made within 30 minutes of where I live. Coal burning power plants all around me.

my opinions don't fall into popular opinion quite often because I find popular opinion on mater regarding China are often trying to make people only look at things from a western point of view which is hard as everything here runs on a different logic.

But in the end to me its all a bunch of crap. Both sides fight each other, one side wants cheap stuff, the other wants to supply it, another just wants to pitch and moan, and in the end we are all hypocrites because one side won't give up all their money for made somewhere else, and the other side won't shoot themselves in the other foot destroying their economy after already shooting themselves the first time ditching the environment.

I don't have a problem buying made in China because I have spent a lot of time intimately knowing the people who make made in China. they are the poor, the needy, and the privileged who were lucky enough to find work that can let them help their families and make their lives a little better because as it was already said, there is no welfare, no social service, no helping hands in a place where if you can't pull your own weight, there is no net to catch you.
 
Rayt said:
No health care, no social safety net, no free education, no nothing. Do or die for all who lives there.
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You mean USA...?

You are certainly not informed about Chinese relations! Most Chinese have access to a far better education system than Americans, a far cheaper health care system, - for all, all backed by a political idea that 'all are equal'. The Chinese have a right to a social safety net. By law. It is not based on 'charity' as is more typical in USA.

But China is a poor country, with a GNP/capita only a fraction of America's. It is too easy to forget.

At a state visit: When confronted by Norwegian press on human rights issues, jiang Zemin said that it was his foremost responsibility to see to that the Chinese people had food on the table, clothes on their bodies, roof above their heads and a job to go to.... The Norwegian press turned all silent. When will ever president Obama claim that this is also his responsibility towards the American people...?
 
my friend if you take the time to read it and think about it you will realize what i am getting at.

we condemn what China does yet we are just as guilty. our own behavior exacts a very toll on places outside of our myopic vision. THAT IS MY POINT. we are hypocrites at best. last i read Shell isn't a Chinese endeavor?

i grew up in one of the largest chinatowns in North America. all my neighbors were Chinese. i think you have mistaken my words and i apologize if i have offended. i do think asking is a great way of sorting it out though.
 
Yellow Sea polution was worrysome to me. Even 20 years ago I worried about fish from there. What must it be like now?

Photo #38 particularly reminded me of the Minamata series; the photo of the mother bathing her daughter, Setsuko I think her name was.

Thanks for the link. W. Eugene Smith has always been a favorite of mine. Nice to see his legacy carried on this way. One has to wonder about the photographer though. How much has he put himself in jeapordy, if at all?
 
"you really should go stick with your whatever photography instead of spreading the craps here.
There are many Chinahaters or anti china forums out there. We don't need another one.
FYI, we eat what you eat and we drink what you drink. Pig feet and chicken feet are delicious. I don't drink bud light but I don't talk non-sense to the ones who drink it."

PS i assure you i am not in the business of spreading crap
 
"How much has he put himself in jeapordy, if at all?"

that is an interesting question. i wonder if some of the folks living there could offer their opinion?

in the meantime i will go drop some fish paste into my broth.
 
Spoks said:
You mean USA...?
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That was my first thought and it is mostly true, but you are living in a serious fantasy world if you think there is free education, medical care and welfare for all in China. Avotius lives there and knows what he is talking about. What we just witnessed in China was brute capitalism.

Their plan was eventually to guide things away from toys and cheap labor and to begin to raise the standard of living and social benefits for the Chinese public, and to begin to harness domestic demand. Just as they were moving to lever that plan into place, Wall Street torched the world economy.

Jiang Zemin is not someone I would take at his word, anything he says or does is designed to keep him and his cronies in power and close to the cash.

Obama might make just about any claim these days, but like Jiang, I'd be reluctant to take him at his word, haven't seen much change I can believe in.

Finally I'm not a China hater, just someone who is not very fond of their government.
 
This photo essay is certainly a horible situation on a grand scale, but the regime does accept it. They are not ignorant of what's going on. 1.3 billion people. Do you think the regime cares if a few million die? They probably welcome it. Same as North Korea. They couldn't care less, it just means that many less mouths to feed.
 
steamer said:
That was my first thought and it is mostly true, but you are living in a serious fantasy world if you think there is free education, medical care and welfare for all in China. Avotius lives there and knows what he is talking about. What we just witnessed in China was brute capitalism.
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Nor is there in the USA. I lived in Shanghai for 5 years, and my wife is Shanghainese. I know more or less how the system works. In short, glossing over a few details if you have a Shanghai hukou:

- There is free education.
- There is a pension.
- There is a medical plan.

If you don't have a Shanghai hukou and live in Shanghai you do not. However, most people who live in Shanghai without a hukou:
- Don't have their kids in Shanghai. They stay in their hometown with relatives to attend school.
- Travel home if they get sick for their healthcare (bad news if you have a bad accident though).
- When they retire, move back home.
 
They need to keep their population employed. Contrary to the USA who don`t care and have a policy of shipping jobs to trading partners. The trade imbalance is used to buy treasury bills ( loans to the government) so taxes can be kept low. Problem now is between morgages to those who can not afford them and the job outsource, loans to us by foreign governments, the system is falling apart. Up to 15% un employment and underemployment now.

China is worried about civil unrest. Americans don`t have the gumption.


Anyway to keep up the 8/10% growth target China has, they build 1 coal fired plant a week. No polution controls. Result is eye tearing smog. They had to shut down industry for weeks before the Olympics and cut traffic so the air would semi clear.


We can`t coal fired plants even with controls. We have no place to put more dams for hydroelectric. can`t do nuclear. We are left with windmills, geothermal, and hugh silicone grids to get power from the sun. This all will not generate more more than a small portion of out needs.

I suppose someone will get serious when we have rolling blackouts.
 
fbf said:
again, I am in no interests discussing politics here. I don't support many things the government has done. I am certainly one of the many who against the pollution problem in China. You can say whatever about the human rights or such. I don't appreciate the generalization and the stereotype,especially the way you put it.
I was born and raised in China for 18 years and I live in NY for 9 years. A lot of my best friends here are greek and italian. Some were my schoolmates and some were my patients. I don't claim myself knowing much about their culture, certainly not criticize on something I know very few about.
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the way i put what? that western oil interests are causing environmental disasters as we speak? sponsoring NPF hit squads in Nigeria that "deal with" dissenters to keep the oil revenues flowing? that Chinese exports into countries like the Congo and Nigeria are quickly replacing homegrown (healthy) foods and goods. that imported Chinese counterfeit malaria drugs in West Africa kill hundreds of kids every year?

again i assure you i RARELY open my mouth when i don't know what i speak of. what i do know is that we can all condemn foreign governments until we are blue in the face but until we all realize that we ALL have a very heavy environmental footprint and govern ourselves accordingly it will continue as it is. no matter how you chose to paint me i do not separate the responsibility into the "Chinese" or "US'. we all, as consumers, are complicit and the work of Lu Guang should serve as a very serious wake up call.

i must take my leave as the star of this thread should be Lu Guang. I do remain curious as to how others living in China perceive the level of risk he faced putting the work out there?
 
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