thedilettante
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Solinar said:
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Socke
Guest
My reason to shoot a RF is size! Smaller is better. The reason not to use a compact digital is image quality. Even now I haven't seen a compact digital comparable to my Contax Gs with ISO 400 film. Or Fujipress 800 in my Contax TVS, there is no digital in this size which rivals that combination.
Viewing trough the lens instead of a seperate viewfinder is not a problem for me, even the mirror blackout doesn't bother me much and since I shoot mainly Contax G I'm used to small and somewhat dim viewfinders anyway 🙂
So the first Pentax istD DSLR was something I welcomed and when I saw it behind glass for the first time and held a prototype in my hand I was sure this is the camera I want to use. Then I realized the lack of a fast medium wide 🙁
Some 60° FoV is a must for me and I want it at f2.8 or more.
And there we come to the RF. I don't know any SLR lenses with this FoW on an APS-C sensor which aren't bigger than a complete RF system.
I've had a look at the Olympus 330/eVolt lately, it is too big for my liking and the midrange zoom is too big, too. I don't think the Panasonic offering will be much smaller, if at all.
So I stay with film for the foreseeable future.
Viewing trough the lens instead of a seperate viewfinder is not a problem for me, even the mirror blackout doesn't bother me much and since I shoot mainly Contax G I'm used to small and somewhat dim viewfinders anyway 🙂
So the first Pentax istD DSLR was something I welcomed and when I saw it behind glass for the first time and held a prototype in my hand I was sure this is the camera I want to use. Then I realized the lack of a fast medium wide 🙁
Some 60° FoV is a must for me and I want it at f2.8 or more.
And there we come to the RF. I don't know any SLR lenses with this FoW on an APS-C sensor which aren't bigger than a complete RF system.
I've had a look at the Olympus 330/eVolt lately, it is too big for my liking and the midrange zoom is too big, too. I don't think the Panasonic offering will be much smaller, if at all.
So I stay with film for the foreseeable future.
Toby
On the alert
Digital P&S would at first seem to be a replacement to RF but I used a friends nikon (I can't remember the name but it was a bridge camera design 8mp) and couldn't believe how horrible it was to use. A lot of digital cameras have fantastic spec sheets but are like a stew thats ruined with too many ingredients. Most users on this forum would be happy with a camera with a limited but excellent quality zoom, fast response times, and decent high ISO performance. Instead manufacturers offer ridiculous 25-400 zooms that are too compromised, built in flashes that have little or no control and weird pictograph modes that no one uses. The problem is that no one seems to want to make a small manual digicam for photographers
RicardoD
Well-known
This is what led me to this Forum in the first place. I wanted a small manual digicam with a good lens. I was even looking for a fixed lens. Of course this camera doesn't exist. Then I realized that this camera was made in the 1970s but I had to shoot on film. So here I am enjoying the experience and the advantages of B&W film.
Mazurka
Well-known
Socke said:
The 24/2.8 will fit your bill nicely: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/ultra-wide/index.html Just buy it used.
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Mazurka
Well-known
And I see most people here haven't heard of the Fuji F10/F11/F30. Look at this: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1012 and this: http://hugopoon.blogspot.com/
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bmattock
Veteran
Mazurka said:
No optical viewfinder. Sorry, for me, that's a deal-breaker. I looked it over carefully. I like the high ISO. I could live without the zoom, but fine. But I have zero interest in a mega-mongo LCD and no optical viewfinder.
I'm sure that line are fine digicams and they satisfy many people with their specs - they are very well reviewed and apparently selling well. But they are not what I want, so I wait and keep shooting an Oly 35 RC and B&W film, which does exactly what I want it to.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
Huck Finn
Well-known
bmattock said:
How then did Minolta make an M-mount camera - the CLE - 25 years ago?
I've read elsewhere - although I can't remember where - that this thing about the patent is a myth, that the original patent from 1954 ran out in the '70s.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Mazurka said:
I'm putting my money on Mazurka fo this one. The two rangefinder designs are too close to be coincidental.
There were no denials from Konica when it was pointed out that its rangefinder design for the Hexar RF appeared to be a copy of the design used for the M6 - as well as all other Leicas since the M2.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
The Minolta CLE was a joint project with Leica I understand.
Huck Finn
Well-known
Jon Claremont said:
The Leica CL & Leitz-Minolta CL were joint projects between Leica & Minolta. I thought that Minolta did the CLE on their own several years after the CL had been cancelled & the 2 companies were no longer working together.. 😕
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
It was a Leitz-Minolta camera.... sold under both names
Leica and Minolta
Leica and Minolta
Huck Finn said:
Huck Finn
Well-known
titrisol said:
I think you're referring to the CL, which did sell under both names & which was a joint project. Not the CLE, which was only sold as Minolta, as were its lenses.
titrisol
Bottom Feeder
good point, I guess there was some agreement between Leitz and minolta anyway so that Minolat could continue the development of the CLE.
I think the decision not to let the M-mount popularize was kinda the Mac vs PC deal.... keep the prices/cache high!!!
I think the decision not to let the M-mount popularize was kinda the Mac vs PC deal.... keep the prices/cache high!!!
Huck Finn
Well-known
titrisol said:
I think that's really the question. Was there ever a decision not to allow use of the M-mount or was it just lack of interest in rangefinders in any mount by anyone but Leica until recently?
Back in the '80s, all other manufacturers were obsessed with SLRs, autofocus, zoom lenses, & speed. That's where all of the R&D went. When Minolta discontinued the CLE, they were working on their breakthrough autofocus technology & then worked on developina the 1/12000 sec shutter speed that topped Nikon's previous high of 1/8000.
Camera makers were constantly adding new features to the next generation of SLRs. The Zeiss/Yashica/Kyocera partnership was the only one that brought any of this to rangefinder applications & that didn't exactly stimulate interest in their competitors to outdo them. It was an SLR market place.
Les Lammers
Established
Finder said:
True. At 5K and not full frame the Leica DM is going to have a tough time too. But
digital technology is still moving forward at a good clip....anything is possible.
Huck Finn said:
Yeah Huck, I've read somewhere the earth is flat, except for the hole in the center where the UFO's come from. Does that make it true because I read it?
The M mount CLE was made with Leica's OK. Don't believe me? Ask Leica.
I discussed the M patent issue with Leica's then CEO, Mr. Cohn. Where do you get your info?
Stephen Gandy
Japanese M Finder Design
Japanese M Finder Design
The issue way back when on the original Topica CVUG list (as I recall), was the Bessa R being a COPY of the CL. That is not true.
However the finders are SIMILAR for a good and surprising reason. The CL was a Japanese camera, made by, and mostly designed in Japan by Minolta, ie by a Japanese camera designer.
Mr. K hired the CL's RF/VF designer to design the finder of the Voigtlander Bessa R / R2. He may have had a hand in the later cameras as well, but I am not sure.
Stephen Gandy
Japanese M Finder Design
Palaeoboy said:
The issue way back when on the original Topica CVUG list (as I recall), was the Bessa R being a COPY of the CL. That is not true.
However the finders are SIMILAR for a good and surprising reason. The CL was a Japanese camera, made by, and mostly designed in Japan by Minolta, ie by a Japanese camera designer.
Mr. K hired the CL's RF/VF designer to design the finder of the Voigtlander Bessa R / R2. He may have had a hand in the later cameras as well, but I am not sure.
Stephen Gandy
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