Powder developers and artefacts on film

[minoltist7]

When I use powder developer (ID-11, Perceptol), I noticed white particles on the film (it looks like dust, but it isn't)
This is Delta 400 in ID-11

This is PanF 50 in Perceptol


In both cases powder developers were used.
One my film was almost spoiled by this residue.
I never faced such results with liquid developers (Ilfosol-S, Negafort)
What can be tha cause of it? Sediment in the bottle with developer?
In both cases I used freshly prepared developer solution, immediately after mixing-up.

 

[kully]

Hallo,

I have had these on and off. But I get them with liquid developers too. My theory (for when I get them) is that the containers I use to keep the chemicals in have dried residue in or that I wash in cold water...

Do you see any sediment/floaters in your developer?

 

[sepiareverb]

It is something in your water causing precipitates in the developer. You could mix with distilled water as a test to confirm my hypothesis.

 

[minoltist7]

Hallo,

I have had these on and off. But I get them with liquid developers too. My theory (for when I get them) is that the containers I use to keep the chemicals in have dried residue in or that I wash in cold water...

Do you see any sediment/floaters in your developer?

In case of ID-11 i didn't see anything.
When I used Microphen (it comes in powder too!) , there was a sediment - but it didn't affect film processing. Strange

There is a theory that solution of powder-based developer need 24 hours to stay in air-tight bottle after preparation... and before first use. Never tried that though, so I can't compare

p.s I use not distilled, but pure drinking water from drug store (in big plastic bottles/cans). I used distilled too,
and found no difference

 

[Jonathan R]

Why are you convinced this isn't dust? There are long fibres on both your examples, as well as the small particles.

Also, when you say these are white particles on the film: they are obviously white on the positive image, so they must be opaque on the film. Are you saying that they look white on the film in reflected light?

 

[minoltist7]

Why are you convinced this isn't dust? There are long fibres on both your examples, as well as the small particles.

Also, when you say these are white particles on the film: they are obviously white on the positive image, so they must be opaque on the film. Are you saying that they look white on the film in reflected light?

there is dust too - but it usually do not come in such large quantities.

 

[Jonathan R]

I filter my chemicals before use through a Paterson funnel filter. (This is a fairly coarse stainless steel mesh.) If I try to filter a solution immediately after mixing, the filter usually clogs. If instead I leave it until the next day before filtering morning, there is no clogging. This, to me , is a pretty convincing demonstration that dissolving isn't complete for some hours. This may be your problem, but the long fibres do say 'dust' to me.

 

[sanmich]

I use Emofin powder developer. I never use it straight after mixing. Always give it a night before using.
I use distilled water for all my chemicals and use to filter the developer through cofee filter before storing.
I also use a last distilled water rinse after the regular rinse.
All in all, never seen this phenomenon. Drying spot, very seldom but nothing like described here.
good luck.

 

[LeicaM3]

Same thing happened to me last week with some freshly mixed D76. Mixed it at 50C, let it cool down, used it 1:1 when it hit 20C a couple hours later, distilled water. 2 35mm films basically ruined.

Googled around, but no definitive result. May be that was it, didn't let it sit long enough. Still got the brew, will throw a 120 in it this weekend. If it's gone I might have an answer.

 

[MartinP]

I haven't ever done some sort of controlled test, but I can't remember mixing and immediately using ID-11/Microphen either. In any case, I pour the dev into the measuring cyclinder via a large-ish funnel with a twist of cotton-wool pushed down the spout. This was a tip given to me ages ago, when I just started developing my own film, and it filters much more quickly than a paper filter whilst apparently still doing the job. Sometimes there are noticeable tiny bits caught in the cotton-wool and sometimes not.

EDIT: Also, I use tap-water for mixing and cheapo distilled water for only the final rinse, but this method probably depends heavily on the local water-supply of course. When I lived in the UK, I never needed the special final-rinse for example.

Another thing to check might be the temperature of the first mixing water - it really does need to be over 40-45 C to do a good job. I vaguely recalled something about leaving developer for twelve hours before use, but I checked the Ilford documentation and it specifically says that when the warm, fresh developer has cooled then it is ready for use.....

 

[mllanos1111]

I've been using ID-11 and about half way through a 5 liter batch, I also use Microphen.
I have noticed a lot of floating particles after it is mixed, but I also filter it through a filtered funnel and it seems to do the trick.
On several occasions I’ve used it shortly after mixing it and have never seen anything like that on any of my negs and it seems to work just fine after mixing.
I'm not sure what your procedure is when you develop but I always mix my chemicals with R.O. water. After fixing I use a HCA and I wash the film for about 5 minutes then rinse several times after with R.O. water.
Last night I processed another roll and it was perfect, the only annoying thing I get is marks across the sprocket holes from the Hewes reels. It looks like where the reel touches the film it doesn’t get developed. I would still like to one day process a roll of film that looks perfect all the way to the sprocket holes, at least the images are flawless.

 

[Pherdinand]

i use diafine and it looks already VERY dirty - both solutions - and i never see such a thing. I did dilute it with distilled water, and it did take long before properly diluted.

 

[sepiareverb]

...p.s I use not distilled, but pure drinking water from drug store (in big plastic bottles/cans). I used distilled too,
and found no difference

Theory collapsed!😱

 

[minoltist7]

So, I developed fresh roll of Agfa APX 100 just now.
my workflow
1) ID-11 from air-tight bottle ( 4 months old stock)
2) mixed it 1:1 with drinking water
3) developed 13,5 minutes, as Ilford papers recommend (t = 20 C )
4) stop bath 1:8 vinegar 30 seconds
5) fixed 5 minutes
6) rinsed 20 minutes under kitchen tap (the tap has a mesh filter in it)
7) rinsed 1 min with pure water, added 2 drops of wetting agent to the tank,
and finally quickly rinsed with water again
8) wiped film with cotton pads, and hung in the bathroom
tomorrow I'll see did it help or not to make film cleaner

 

[sepiareverb]

Cotton Pads, this sounds like a potential culprit. I like the Premier 'Photo WIpes'.

 

[visiondr]

Cotton pads; yikes!
Oh, and if you're concerned about particulate matter/precipitates in the developer, you could strain it through a coffee filter. That's what I did when I first mixed up my Diafine.

 

[lZr]

The white spots (dirt, or dust) is a bonus of the workflow. You will have them as white spots for negatives and you will see them black spots for slides, but you have them always, including liquid developers. They can show up even during scanning

 

[minoltist7]

Cotton pads; yikes!
Oh, and if you're concerned about particulate matter/precipitates in the developer, you could strain it through a coffee filter. That's what I did when I first mixed up my Diafine.

Cotton pads are OK, if used very gently. otherwise they can add scratches
This is a sample from not wiped film, with ugly drying marks

and this is wiped with cotton pads. it has some small scratches here and there, but no drying marks here:

 

[bsdunek]

I would guess dirt and lint, except it seems it varies with the developer.
I always mix in water according to direction - stirring, not shaking (like a good martini). Add the proper amount of water to make the right size batch. Then let sit at least overnight. I will stir again, and then use. I have never had spots from developer myself. Any residue should be washed off after stop, fix and rinse.
I use Photoflo for the final rinse and wipe gently with a Kodak photo sponge (don't know if you can get those any more - I still have several in the package never used).
Have never had any scratches, spots or anything, except lint and dirt if the drying film picked it up. Don't hang your film in a laundry room!

 

[foto_fool]

I had this problem - you can see white grains on the emulsion side with a loupe? - and traced it to my fixer. Filtering through a coffee filter helped. Since I switched to freshly-made Ilford liquid fixer I have not seen the the spots at all.