hap
Well-known
Capa, Contax II - Rodger, Leica iii
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Cigarettes in hand....and very slim. What do you see nowadays?
hap
Well-known
MarcoIIIc
Member
Pre WWII Zeiss Contax Rangefinders vs Leica Barnack Screw Mounts
Zeiss Ikon was never a company to compromise excellence; their products were so over engineered it bankrupted them.
Leicas are quality cameras but their engineered solutions are simple and maintenance friendly.
Leica cloth shutters can be replaced (and are continuously replaced) with a simple CLA. Contax prewar ribbons are also easily replaced, but if the actual curtain needs replacement (a rare occurrence) then you are out of luck.
Remember that the shutters eventually moved away from cloth after the war, foil was used to replace silk and the Copal FP shutter is metal.
Prewar Leica Shutters are as primitive as it gets, and getting the indicated 1/1000s from them without shading is wishful thinking. The Contax design does not shade, sets the required slit before release and travels vertically having to cover a significantly shorter distance.... and does all this without anything moving millimeters from your shutter release button.....
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Zeiss Ikon was never a company to compromise excellence; their products were so over engineered it bankrupted them.
Leicas are quality cameras but their engineered solutions are simple and maintenance friendly.
Leica cloth shutters can be replaced (and are continuously replaced) with a simple CLA. Contax prewar ribbons are also easily replaced, but if the actual curtain needs replacement (a rare occurrence) then you are out of luck.
Remember that the shutters eventually moved away from cloth after the war, foil was used to replace silk and the Copal FP shutter is metal.
Prewar Leica Shutters are as primitive as it gets, and getting the indicated 1/1000s from them without shading is wishful thinking. The Contax design does not shade, sets the required slit before release and travels vertically having to cover a significantly shorter distance.... and does all this without anything moving millimeters from your shutter release button.....
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Highway 61
Revisited
What is important in your post is the word "war".
There has been a war indeed. And during that war, some ingeneers at Zeiss Ikon worked at an improved Contax shutter, and they made it, so it wasn't a "dead end". The ribbons failure issue was solved. Unfortunately, they couldn't test their new shutter enough. After the war, they flew away from Germany and their blueprints got both destroyed and lost. Their prototype got marketed in 1950 eventually (the Contax IIa) thanks to people having re-made it from scratch, but it was released with the wartime prototype design errors (too much friction at the beveled shutter shafts geartrains). Onwards from that, only the minor standard flash sync. was added as an improvement (which plagued the late postwar Contax shutter with additional shutter release hesitation problems it didn't need for sure). The prewar vertically travelling metal blades shutter was a great idea. But it suffered from its excessive complexity and the lack of improvement investment due to the war, and the consequences of the war.
The Contax vs Leica debate is of no interest. What is of some interest is the historical background of the contest between the two systems. But everything about this has been written already.
Today we can use the wonderful Zeiss lenses designed for the Contax from the 1930s to the late 1950s with the highly reliable Nikon rangefinder cameras. Which are way more reliable (all ball bearings shutters, shutter curtains made either of a superior woven silk not in need of an additional thick rubber coating to be light tight, or of titanium foil) than their postwar contemporary Leicas. Try to straightly use, say, a Leica IIIf you have found stored in an attic for years, then come back and tell us, what you've found out.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
But cavities are easily burnt in the curtains when the sun shines through the lens.
Erik.
tennis-joe
Well-known
Flicker account
Flicker account
I just viewed the Flicker Account of famous photos and it was an interesting experience to see that collection.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181737030@N04
Flicker account
I just viewed the Flicker Account of famous photos and it was an interesting experience to see that collection.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/181737030@N04
Erik van Straten
Veteran
There can be no discussion about the fact that the Leica made 35mm photography popular.
gelatine silver print (elmar 35mm f3.5) leica 1a (1928)
Erik.
gelatine silver print (elmar 35mm f3.5) leica 1a (1928)
Erik.
Shafovaloff1
Well-known
An education the above is, for sure. Novice me, looking at the image on a tv screen through the back of the camera to see if the shutter is traveling uniformly and the width of the image compares to that of an OM-1 or Nikon F2 set at the same speed.....What I see in the OM-1 with the lightest "gear" for the shutter using string instead of ribbon or tape is a very uniform movement of the curtains...and the Contax I even better. Do the comparison yourself. Not even the Canon 7sz comes close nor any other Barnack type I have seen. Proof in the pudding though, Leica was the esteemed and preferred for whatever reason.
Shafovaloff1
Well-known
Shafovaloff1
Well-known
Thought I would try to post a picture...so far best I could do..hope ok.
RObert Budding
D'oh!
I've never owned a Leica because it feels too much like joining a religious cult. Replies on this thread validate that impression.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
This is a Leica (M3) picture 41 years old. Since yesterday it is on Flickr and now it reached 106 likes. A Leica is a camera that invites you to shoot in any situation, much more than a Contax (with the exception of the models G1/G2). That has nothing to do with religion, but everything with ergonomics.
gelatine silver print (summicron 50mm f2 rigid) leica m3
Erik.
gelatine silver print (summicron 50mm f2 rigid) leica m3
Erik.
Highway 61
Revisited
My understanding was that this thread was about Contax I, II and III ergonomics versus Leica I, II, and III ergonomics. Telling Leica M and Contax G here may be out of topic, so to speak.
As an aside, what I can see on the linked photo above is that it's good to see images of people not peeping a smartphone screen in public transportations. Yet, I don't get why it couldn't have been taken with something else than a Leica and I don't get why the 106 "likes" on some online social media corroborates this theory.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Maybe because of the quality of the image. I have four Contaxes, but I've never gotten anything out of them that compares to what I get with ease out of even my oldest Leicas.
The amount of likes on one of the social media (Flickr) for this picture is now 179.
Erik.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
This is the best shot I ever got out of a Contax I. Looks nice, I admit, but look at the borders! The borders of Leica pictures are always nice and clean.
Flickr amount of likes: 4.
gelatin silver print (nikkor h 50mm f2) contax I.
Erik.
Flickr amount of likes: 4.
gelatin silver print (nikkor h 50mm f2) contax I.
Erik.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I'm sorry, Stephen, but I do not agree. I've posted many pictures here on RFF taken with prewar Leicas, even with a Leica from 1928. Leicas are much handier, smoother and faster to use, LTM or M.
The Contax II and IIa are much too heavy to carry around. The Contax I is unreliable. Any prewar Leica is better than those.
The Zeiss lenses are good, but what can a good lens do on an unreliable or overweight camera?
Erik.
OK, prove your point with Barnack pics, not M pics.
apples and oranges.
Stephen
DC1030
DC1030
I have been using a Contax II for nearly 20 years now, it never let me down. Different experience with my Leicas (I know, it's unfair, no CLA for decades), but on my last two vacations the Leica I decided to do pictures that are darker on the right half. ok, I hear you say "do a CLA"... on the second vacation the IIIf (which always worked like a charm) decided to to half pictures... I resume it is better to do a test roll before taking them to a holiday. Double Leica fate.
To the point of optical quality I can say the Sonnar 1.5/50 uncoated is phantastic, but so are the Summitar 2.0/50 uncoated and also the Elmar of the Leica I.
A real nice one is the Jupiter 8 from the fifties.
To the point of optical quality I can say the Sonnar 1.5/50 uncoated is phantastic, but so are the Summitar 2.0/50 uncoated and also the Elmar of the Leica I.
A real nice one is the Jupiter 8 from the fifties.
