Price increase for Leica USA and M8 Delivery

[Mark Norton]

You can live in hope that secondhand M8s will be available for the price of a coffee in an Amsterdam "brown cafe", but I think you'll be waiting a while. The digital M is going to open up a whole new world for M photography and I'd be surprised if there were significant numbers available secondhand. An M9 is many years away.

 

[MarkM6]

Huh????

Huh????

im waiting for the ziess ikon digital offering, I got my fingers crossed that it will be full frames and a hell of a lot cheaper then the leica

What made you think that a FF DRF with Zeiss brand would be "hell of a lot cheaper" than Leica M8?

Damn!

 

[MarkM6]

My final answer to M8

My final answer to M8

If the high ISO (800 to 1600) performance of the M8 is on the same level with my 5D, I will sell my 5D and all that attaches to it; period.

 

[jaapv]

If the high ISO (800 to 1600) performance of the M8 is on the same level with my 5D, I will sell my 5D and all that attaches to it; period.

Probably it will be slightly noisier; CCD chips are not as polished as CMOS in that respect. But CCD gives a more film-like result and more grain-like noise, in short less of the "digital-look".
But don't forget you will be able to use faster lenses and to hand-hold it at slower speeds. ISO 200 on the Leica will be equivalent in use to at least ISO 800 on the Canon, maybe even 1600.

 

[MarkM6]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm

ISO 200 on the Leica will be equivalent in use to at least ISO 800 on the Canon, maybe even 1600.

Can you tell me what do you mean by your statement?

5D+35/f1.4L @ ISO 800 vs. M8+??/f?? @ ISO 200 ?? 😕

 

[canonetc]

Funny but useless idea: the M8 should not have a preview screen. Thus, the aesthetic of appreciatiing the art/action of photography will take precedence over immediate gratification. You won't know your decisive moment until you open the computer/laptop. Aw shucks; why have one then...?

Hopeful ideas: Sensor should be full frame, 12 MB with RAW, with a TRUE BW format (no loss of information when you convert) as well as color. Accepts Compact flash and Smart Cards. Will be as rugged and durable as an M3 or 6. Can shoot at 2fps...or maybe 3.

More useless ideas: Will have wireless and instant download transmitter to your laptop or special Leica Portable 250GB drive (suggested retail $2000). Special models will come in Platinum, signed posthumously by HCB. (Hmmmm...how will they do that...?). Or his daughter. Sebastiao Salgado model comes in Amazonian Birch. Has automatic fan inside to detect and keep dust off the sensor. Will accept screw-mount lenses; sensors will be added for a mere sum of $500 each. Each sensor, that is. Will come with a five year warranty, but not supported by dropping, kicking, rain, floods, war, battles, theft or remarket on Ebay. Will have a special warning chip to alert Leitz when posted on Ebay for less than the retail price.
Leica Swat Teams will decend on habitat, photograph and arrest offender. Has a double-stroke winder (just for the fun of it).

And finally, will have a special rebate of $1.00.

Cheers,

Chris
canonetc
And yes I'd love one too..... 🙂

 

[Mark Norton]

We know the sensor is 1.33, 10 and a bit MP, different sensor from the DMR.

It's likely that Leica are having to jump through hoops to get 1.33 to work with their style of lens design, so FF is, for the time being, out of the question.

People here bitch about the cost of the thing and even if a full frame sensor could work, the cost would be substantially more; there would also need to be more memory, higher clock speeds and shorter battery life. Imagine the bitching then.

FF is not going to happen anytime soon and anyone who thinks a company 1/50 the size of Nikon can carry it off is in La-La land. Personally, I'm more than pleased that the M concept is being reworked for digital and cannot wait for the launch. My travel to Photokina on 26 September is booked.

 

[Socke]

Can you tell me what do you mean by your statement?

5D+35/f1.4L @ ISO 800 vs. M8+??/f?? @ ISO 200 ?? 😕

He's probably referring to handholdability at slower shutter speeds.

Like 5d+35/1.4, ISO800, 1/30 vs. M8+35/1.4, ISO200, 1/8th.

 

[jaapv]

He's probably referring to handholdability at slower shutter speeds.

Like 5d+35/1.4, ISO800, 1/30 vs. M8+35/1.4, ISO200, 1/8th.

With the same amount of camera shake due to the different ergonomics. Thank you Volker 🙂

 

[Socke]

Trading motion blur against camera shake 🙂

 

[jaapv]

Trading motion blur against camera shake 🙂

Motion blur is a photographic symbol and creative element, camera shake a symptom of delirium tremens. 😛

 

[Grober]

Just had a shiver of delicious anticipation when I suddenly realized that by selling my M7 and one lens, I could afford the M8 body.

(Get a Bessa R2x for film while I wait for the M8 to arrive.)

'Course, I'll burn another grand to upgrade my photo computer with LOTS more storage. Probably a faster processor too.

Hey, this could work! Hmmm...

 

[chrisweeks]

thanks tony ...

now i'm going to have to allocate $5K for a new camera!

*runs off to email tony*

 

[ywenz]

Motion blur is a photographic symbol and creative element, camera shake a symptom of delirium tremens. 😛

there is no substitute for low shutter speed. Motion blur is a bitch, and sometimes only a clean high-iso image is the solution...

 

[jaapv]

there is no substitute for low shutter speed. Motion blur is a bitch, and sometimes only a clean high-iso image is the solution...

Dunno-somebody once sold me a tripod..It might stop self-induced motion blur..Superglue seems to work for the subject... It must be at the bottom of my cupboard somewhere...😀

 

[wilt]

What about a version with a true b&w sensor? I know next to nothing about CCD technology, but skipping the colour filter would perhaps give advantages (noise, resolution). The pictures in the rangefinder/Leica M legacy and tradition is mostly b&w anyway.

 

[jaapv]

There has been speculation about that on this forum, but in the end the conclusion seemed to be that the advantages would probably not warrant the hassle.Your advantages would be realistic, but for one thing more resolution than 10 MP is not very relevant and the noise issue was not much of a problem for any but the most die-hard digitalists. On the downside it would reduce the usability of the camera (even a B&W shooter might want to do some colour work from time to time), and shooting in colour does give the option of converting to black and white using the colour channels, thus giving full control over contrast and gradation, like applying colour-filters.

 

[DaveKennedy]

Used please

Used please

I'll wait to buy one used, as long as it's newspaper usable at 1600ASA

...oh, it's a CCD...well that really is too bad... then the noise will be terrible even for newspaper work.

 

[NoTx]

ill wait for the full framed one so I can use my 35 cron the way it was ment to be used

plus 5000 is just way too expensive, I think knocking at least 2000 off that price would be a little more resonable....

I dunno, a 1.3x crop sounds like a great compromise if they somehow let you use like a 40mm for a 50 and such. Have to see what like comes up with.

On the other hand: why would you think the M8 would be $500 cheaper than the film body? The digital versions are ALWAYS more.

Include into the calculation the following hidden costs for digital:

Price of PC system and all required software
Time spent catagorizing, archiving and processing digital images
Rapid depreciation of camera
[more unknown hidden costs]

The first one can be big… but for me, as a heavy user of DSLRs… not an issue. The second however is really no different from film. I have binders and slide cases… all organized. However I could have rapidly found one slide I was looking for if digital. Granted, none of my film is going away soon🙂

Okay, now my actual quandaries…

Will the M8 use 14 bit or 16 bit color? 16 bit would make it a lot more sellable.

Will it have any body sealing? A normal M doesn’t need it, you take out the battery. This guy does need it. Not really worried about the lenses: they have NOTHING to fry. But the camera… should at least have moisture and dust sealing. And if they can get their friends at Panny to talk to Oly… grab the supersonic wave at the same time.

Since none of their digital cameras I know of (don’t know on the DMR) have had the 3 year passport warranty… will this one?

 

[jlw]

...oh, it's a CCD...well that really is too bad... then the noise will be terrible even for newspaper work.

Have you checked the noise-at-ISO-1600 thread on the R-D 1 forum? That's a CCD too, and a lot of us find there's not much problem. The dance-concert publicity photos I send to newspapers routinely run at as much as four-column size, and the editors must not have any complaints about the noise, since they keep using 'em...