Pricing photos?? Help!!!

[Nostalgie]

Hey everyone,
Ive kind of been thrown into an environment where people are asking to use my shots for a bunch of different things.

First let me say, Im more of an artistic B&W shooter, so the only selling Ive ever done up until now has been prints of work.

I went to FL to photograph a big car race at Daytona 2 weeks ago, my first time shooting that atmosphere but a lot of fun! Anyway, my shots went up on my site, and Ive gotten a bunch of e-mails from people, which I know, and are all good people, so trust isnt an issue or anyhting, the price is the issue! I got $250 for 3-5 shots for someone who wanted to use them in a small company newlsetter, butthen I got an e-mail from a Pro Video guy, who is editing his video of the race and wants to integrate some of my stills into the video, Im very flattered and told him definitely, he asked how much Id charge....I DONT KNOW! Haha, please, if anyone has done anything like this, Id love to know! Any input, or suggestions are greatly appreciated! Pleae get back to me, thanks in advance!
Bryan

The shots are up here www.bryanbowie.com if you want/need to see before input. Thanks again!

 

[Topdog1]

I couldn't see the race sets. They loaded to my browser but the images never appeared. I'm using Firefox.

/Ira

 

[Nostalgie]

Hmmm, I checked them on mine (Safari), as well as an Internet Explorer, and then a FireFox browser, on 3 different comps, and they all loaded fine...Odd? What size screen are you on? I dont know why this would happen? Is it just the Race Sets? Or you cant see any of the galleries from the Daytona section?
Thanks
Bryan

 

[RdEoSg]

I can't see them on firefox either.

EDIT: All of the sets show up except the two race sets.

 

[dazedgonebye]

Licensing fees are tough to figure out when you are not established and working regularly in a field.
I experienced this last year and was lucky enough that the customer had hired a designer to coordinate the project. The designer spoke frankly to me about the project budget and what would likely to be approved for the image.
After much hand-wringing, I finally came up with a number (and just as difficult, an invoice outlining the details). I submitted a draft of my invoice to the designer and he sent it back to me without forwarding it to the customer. "You're not charging enough" was his note.
So, I raised the price to within a few bucks of the max he'd recommended and it was accepted (I just got the 1088 for that sale).

Lessons learned:
1) As an amateur, I tend to sell myself short when it comes to pricing. My thinking was "I'd like to make this first big sale and I don't want to be greedy." That was silly because I was actually telling the client "Hey I'm an amateur, don't take me seriously."
2) Have an invoice template ready. You don't want to risk losing the work while you educate yourself on the particulars of image licensing and invoicing.

 

[Topdog1]

I can't see them on firefox either.

EDIT: All of the sets show up except the two race sets.

That's my problem, too.

/Ira

 

[Topdog1]

Licensing fees are tough to figure out when you are not established and working regularly in a field.
I experienced this last year and was lucky enough that the customer had hired a designer to coordinate the project. The designer spoke frankly to me about the project budget and what would likely to be approved for the image.
After much hand-wringing, I finally came up with a number (and just as difficult, an invoice outlining the details). I submitted a draft of my invoice to the designer and he sent it back to me without forwarding it to the customer. "You're not charging enough" was his note.
So, I raised the price to within a few bucks of the max he'd recommended and it was accepted (I just got the 1088 for that sale).

Lessons learned:
1) As an amateur, I tend to sell myself short when it comes to pricing. My thinking was "I'd like to make this first big sale and I don't want to be greedy." That was silly because I was actually telling the client "Hey I'm an amateur, don't take me seriously."
2) Have an invoice template ready. You don't want to risk losing the work while you educate yourself on the particulars of image licensing and invoicing.

Is there an outline of your template you could share with us? I wouldn't have thought it so diificult to create an invoice. It sounds like your invoice is a combination of licensing terms and a bill.

/Ira

 

[Nostalgie]

Im sorry about the problems with the site guys, thats odd, Ill check it out. Dazed, I think Im where you were, Im 23, and the selling Ive done has been more casual, so and so wants a print, I give them a price, no forms etc, these are wall hangers nothing commercial, art. So now Im getting thrown into the loop as far as people wanting to use my stuff in their stuff, which if fine, but I guess what im saying is I dont even know a price point to start from, someone using my shots intergrated in a video is a tough one to price, at least for me. Id like to see or hear some points of your invoise template if thats ok, since Ive been doing this for some time, and dont want to sell myself too short, but dont want to be greedy as you said...Thanks
Bryan

 

[dazedgonebye]

You might try the stock photo agencies. Hit their sites and see what they charge for the same or similar type of use.
Don't be shy. If the rates aren't clear on the site, contact them and ask how much for (pick an image) to be used as a still in your video.

Price yourself accordingly. I figure an image of a specific event or place that is of interest to the client is worth at least as much as a generic picture of the same subject from a stock agency.
If you want to be conservative, propose a price below what your research tells you. You will have an easily defensible price should the client balk. "XXX Stock agency wants $$$$ for a generic shot. I have shots from the actual event for less."
Just an idea.

I've attached a .jpg of the invoice I used. I can't claim it's good or complete or protects your rights adequately. It's just what I came up with after reading other invoices I was able to get my hands on.

 

[mwooten]

Bryan,
I couldn't get the images to appear when using Camino, but they did show up in Safari. Nice shots.

As far as pricing your images to the video producer, I am no help. However, for contract info I would direct you to a book called "Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing & Ethical Guidlines." Although it is geared more toward designers and illustrators, the sections on artists right and contracts is very good. There might be a copy at your local Barnes & Nobel type bookstore. Buy a cup of coffee and study it there. Make sure that you don't give anything away. Make sure that you only sell use rights for a specific thing (such as that specific video).

Good luck,
Michael

 

[dazedgonebye]

I would echo Michael's advice re: being specific about the rights being granted. It's important that all parties understand the distinction between "selling a photo" and granting rights to its use.

Looking at my crude invoice, you'll see that the acceptable use is laid out as well as the allowable time frame for that use. I also added a bit saying that using the image before payment was received would constitute copyright violation. I think that's important. It's ok to bill "net 45" or "net 60" as long as the client understands that delay in payment means delay in their right to use the image.

 

[Nostalgie]

I realy appreciate it! I think Im on the right track now, theres a few books that were recommended to me as well, as far as the business side of photography etc, so Ill check a few out. Thanks so much! -Bryan

 

[popstar]

Seems to be some generally good advice above. Thanks to Steve and Michael for sharing. Bryan, good luck with the sale. It's always nice to be appreciated, especially when it's financially. Pretty good start I'd say!