Prints

[JHutchins]

For black and white, silver prints are more archival IF they're on Fiber Base paper AND they're processed properly.

The inks used in inkjet prints will eventually fade, though current pigment inks are very durable. Silver-gelatin images are made of tiny particles of silver metal, so as long as the print was properly processed and the print is not exposed to atmospheric pollution, the prints will never fade.

I think too much is bound into the "if"s in the above for it to really have much power as a conclusion and even on its terms it isn't quite right. The image in any given silver print is going to be silver in some form suspended in gelatin on a paper base. There are lots and lots of avenues for change or decay over time here -- factors that attack the paper (acidity for example), factors that attack the gelatin (humidity, biological crap), and factors that attack the silver -- and since silver is a pretty reactive metal there are many and it's hard to isolate a print from that entirely especially where energy is available to the reaction through light. And properly processed has to be understood to include adequate washing and chemical neutralization techniques.

Some inkjet prints have remarkable longevity -- very possibly as good as silver (qualifications are needed because what we have to work with are artificial aging studies as we haven't had the time to wait and see what happens). And if pure carbon inks are used -which of course limits one to black and white - they should be far more inert and permanent than a silver print.

If you really want permanent, probably the best thing you can do is make a platinum print and keep it out of any city where there's smog or make a carbon print. Those should be as durable as the paper and whatever sizing is used on the paper.

But yes it is lovely to be able to show people your image as you see it. It is frustrating to see one's work on other people's monitors where what one thought was there wasn't or what wasn't supposed to be there is depending on the monitor and how it's adjusted. All of photography is about the choices open to the photographer and how those choices affect the perceived image. Some of those choices are made in the camera, some in photoshop or the darkroom, some in the presentation of the display image. And when viewed on someone else's monitor, many of the choices you make (choices about brightness, contrast, color, tonality most obviously) are stripped away and the image that is seen isn't the one you tried to produce. A print is as close as you can come to showing someone else the image that you wanted seen.

 

[maggieo]

John,

I use and maintain two printers: an Epson 3880; and an Epson 7800. The costs are huge. On a 24 inch by 50 foot roll I only get 16 prints when I print 20x30 on 24x36. One year I took advantage of discount sale pricing and spent $10K on paper and ink alone.

Then there are additional costs of storage boxes for these prints.

Cal, where do you get your storage boxes and what are they? I desperately need some! Thanks!

 

[ptpdprinter]

I use 3" metal edge drop front boxes from Archival Methods. They are available for prints up to 20x24.

 

[Calzone]

Cal, where do you get your storage boxes and what are they? I desperately need some! Thanks!

PDP,

Beat me in response. Archival Methodes is the place for boxes and stock frames. One can buy in bulk.

Cal

 

[Ronald M]

For black and white, silver prints are more archival IF they're on Fiber Base paper AND they're processed properly.

The inks used in inkjet prints will eventually fade, though current pigment inks are very durable. Silver-gelatin images are made of tiny particles of silver metal, so as long as the print was properly processed and the print is not exposed to atmospheric pollution, the prints will never fade.

Spent a lot of $ on digital and love it for speed and the ability to manipulate. Downside is I must turn it over to someone else for finishing so I lose control. Can not afford a laser printer or have space for one. Ink is just ink. Printers dry up and cost way to much for low volume.

Bottom line I resurrected my Zone 6 and film Leicas and bought a bunch of Nikon F2. Already had lenses for them.

Darkroom is up and running after years of no use.

Color is digital and printed at a pro lab.

 

[plummerl]

I use 3" metal edge drop front boxes from Archival Methods. They are available for prints up to 20x24.

Print File and University Products also carry the same boxes. University has it up to 23x31", Print File has it up to 22x28". Each has discounts for the more you purchase.

 

[jsrockit]

John,

You are my inspiration.

For those that don't know John's work, he uses books to edit mucho images.

John I consider not only a photographer, but also a book artist. He has his own style.

Cal

Thanks for the kind words Cal! I'm trying to be at least... 😉

 

[Dogman]

B&H has archival Lineco boxes up to 23x31x3. Prices vary by color (oddly enough). Right now the lowest price for the largest box is the blue/gray color--a bit cheaper than the Archival Methods brand equivalent size (at least for single boxes).

I use Lineco boxes and they seem fine to me. Amazon sometimes has them at even lower prices.

As to the cost of inkjet printing, it's certainly no worse than the cost of printing in the darkroom. Remember the cost of chemicals, film and paper? Before I shut down my home darkroom, "high quality" fiber based paper was becoming very expensive while that
so-called high quality was declining significantly. That was extremely frustrating to me. No doubt pigment inks and high rag content art papers are expensive too but once you get your printing mojo going there's less waste involved and a lot less time as well. Plus you get a wide choice of papers--art papers that have been in use for centuries that have been modified for inkjet uses.

 

[Calzone]

Thanks for the kind words Cal! I'm trying to be at least... 😉

John,

Your influence has to be noted. You helped me grow as an artist. Sometime one needs someone to give that gentle and sometimes not so gentile push.

Also your sense of style makes you stand alone. I appreciate this the most. Not easy to stand alone.

Cal

 

[maggieo]

B&H has archival Lineco boxes up to 23x31x3. Prices vary by color (oddly enough). Right now the lowest price for the largest box is the blue/gray color--a bit cheaper than the Archival Methods brand equivalent size (at least for single boxes).

I use Lineco boxes and they seem fine to me. Amazon sometimes has them at even lower prices.

As to the cost of inkjet printing, it's certainly no worse than the cost of printing in the darkroom. Remember the cost of chemicals, film and paper? Before I shut down my home darkroom, "high quality" fiber based paper was becoming very expensive while that
so-called high quality was declining significantly. That was extremely frustrating to me. No doubt pigment inks and high rag content art papers are expensive too but once you get your printing mojo going there's less waste involved and a lot less time as well. Plus you get a wide choice of papers--art papers that have been in use for centuries that have been modified for inkjet uses.

Thanks to everyone for the storage suggestions!

Inkjet papers have really become something to behold.

I printed my last gallery show (2017 Cuba photographs) on Hahnemühle bamboo paper, and to my eyes, they're the best-looing prints I've ever made (And I used to use Zone VI's Brilliant paper back in the day).

 

[Calzone]

Thanks to everyone for the storage suggestions!

Inkjet papers have really become something to behold.

I printed my last gallery show (2017 Cuba photographs) on Hahnemühle bamboo paper, and to my eyes, they're the best-looing prints I've ever made (And I used to use Zone VI's Brilliant paper back in the day).

Maggieo,

Would love to see those prints.

I think printing makes one a better photographer. Not the same when someone else prints my work. It seems I like control of my own vision.

At a gallery workshop I learned that artist that print their own work don't enjoy any premium pricing because collectors and dealers assume that a third party printer is under the direction and is supervised by the photographer. I was disappointed to hear this.

Also today there no longer exists a premium pricing on silver wet prints.

With clients where I print for other artists I always get them involved in the process. More or less I am just a tool to convey their vision. I try to get them involved in the process AMAP.

Cal

 

[maggieo]

If you're anywhere near Lincoln Cal, let me know!

 

[Dogman]

Thanks to everyone for the storage suggestions!

Inkjet papers have really become something to behold.

I printed my last gallery show (2017 Cuba photographs) on Hahnemühle bamboo paper, and to my eyes, they're the best-looing prints I've ever made (And I used to use Zone VI's Brilliant paper back in the day).

Hahnemuhle's Bamboo paper is sweet with that different but beautiful texture. I recently tried Awagami washi bamboo. It has a more traditional texture and I think it looks great with photos that have subdued or pastel colors.

I also like Hahnemuhle's Museum Etching for a more traditional and more heavily textured paper. But I generally print on Epson Hot Press Natural because I like a smoother texture and HPN is usually a bit cheaper but gorgeous just the same. Other smoother surface papers I've tried and like are Canson's Rag Photographique, Velin Museum Rag (previously designated "Arches Museum Rag") and Printmaking Rag (previously designated "BFK Rives"). These are all more expensive than Epson HPN unless you find them on sale. They all have great tonality with B&W and also print color well.

 

[Calzone]

Are the bamboo papers matte?

Thanks in advance.

Cal

 

[Dogman]

Are the bamboo papers matte?

Thanks in advance.

Cal

Cal, they're a semi-smooth matte surface. The structure of the fiber is unique. The Hahnemuhle bamboo has a little more texture from the bamboo fibers than the Awagami bamboo I've tried.

 

[Calzone]

Cal, they're a semi-smooth matte surface. The structure of the fiber is unique. The Hahnemuhle bamboo has a little more texture from the bamboo fibers than the Awagami bamboo I've tried.

D-M,

Thanks. Great info.

I have been noticing the buzz about bamboo papers. Really interesting.

Cal

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Do any of you have any experience with metal prints?

I know absolutely nothing about them but have seen several magazine ads for them.

 

[maggieo]

I had Precision Camera in Austin do a B&W metal print for one of my commissions and it it was spectacular.

 

[Erik van Straten]

What is a "metal print"? I've never heard of it.

Erik.

 

[Rick Waldroup]

Thanks, Maggie. I have seen a few of these that were printed in color and found the detail in the images to be excellent. That is great news that you had a B&W print made, because all I shoot and print is B&W, digitally. I have never seen a B&W image printed on metal, so I ordered a print from Bay Photo. It should be here in a few days.

Erik, the images are printed or fused into a piece of aluminum. The print can be mounted several ways, including a "floating" mount that makes the image appear to be slightly floating off the wall. There is no need for matting or framing the print, unless you want to. Supposedly, they are as archival as the best processed fiber based prints. That part is what worries me, but we shall see.

Since I shut my darkroom down several years ago, I have contracted out the printing of my images and have been happy, overall, with the results. But after viewing some of these metal prints in person and seeing the quality, I really have my hopes up for this process.

Visit Bay Photo's website, or Precision Camera's website, for more details. They are a bit more expensive than normal paper prints, but if the quality is there for such a unique product, then it may well be worth it.