JonP
Established
Sorry about having to post this complaint about an ebay seller but I have had no joy else where and thought I would warn others.
I bought a nice (it's all relative) FED NKVD type d from ussr_cameras. It arrived promptly with a fungused lens, the seller offered to replace it, after two months no joy, he could not find a replacement lens (he had 4 listed at the time), so I cleaned the lens myself and tried the camera. Big problems, film would not wind and shutter very bad when loaded, the back was distorted and the rewind column bent. So contacted seller he said return it for replacement or repair, even though it had been a long time. Three months passed with no news. then camera appears relisted (#250167733777) (this time minus the case, I still have that), after ebays 90 day limit on complaints
The seller refuses to answer and ebay will/can do nothing. They say contact the police, I'm in the UK the seller in Russia! This is definitely my camera, I still have the pictures from his original listing and of the camera when it arrived.
As I said sorry to bad mouth anyone, but this is unacceptable behavior, and this is a warning to others, as well as somewhere to vent my anger!
I bought a nice (it's all relative) FED NKVD type d from ussr_cameras. It arrived promptly with a fungused lens, the seller offered to replace it, after two months no joy, he could not find a replacement lens (he had 4 listed at the time), so I cleaned the lens myself and tried the camera. Big problems, film would not wind and shutter very bad when loaded, the back was distorted and the rewind column bent. So contacted seller he said return it for replacement or repair, even though it had been a long time. Three months passed with no news. then camera appears relisted (#250167733777) (this time minus the case, I still have that), after ebays 90 day limit on complaints
The seller refuses to answer and ebay will/can do nothing. They say contact the police, I'm in the UK the seller in Russia! This is definitely my camera, I still have the pictures from his original listing and of the camera when it arrived.
As I said sorry to bad mouth anyone, but this is unacceptable behavior, and this is a warning to others, as well as somewhere to vent my anger!
palec
Well-known
I clearly understand that. I have similar bad experience with ebay seller joel0527 - Joël Focant from Belgium, registered also on this site (but inactive). Made everything to reach protection time limit. Now he has my money and fogged Summicron he sold me. He's not answering e-mails and ignores phonecalls. I plan to pass this to police, however I don't have any experience with cross-border issues, and honestly I don't believe I can get my money back.
Didier
"Deed"
Many of these FSU gear ebay sellers, especially those at the cheaper end, are not camera specialists but just part time sellers with very limited or no knowhow about the products they sell. They look at it, push some buttons, turn some rings, and then state "Normal, with little traces of use. Please, see pictutes" like your friend. A description says much about a seller - the shorter, the riskier it is for you.
In your case you met a seller who is simply dishonest. You may have been a bit naive in believing he would replace a camera so much time after the auction.
More trustable sellers have better descriptions, test the gear before selling it, they answer your questions before your bid, and everything else that good sellers do. You can ask here, many of us have made good experiences with some. "cupog" comes to my mind, for instance, who CLA's and services his items himself and describes them very accurately. "alex-photo" is also honest, though his descriptions seem too short. Or Yuri Davidenko ("h_o_h_o_l" formerly "d_v_d_t_e_c_h_n_i_kk") took once a Kiev 4 back I had bought from him and which was not 100% ok, repaired it and sent it back with some goodies - and this off-ebay as I had bought it directly on his website.
Didier
In your case you met a seller who is simply dishonest. You may have been a bit naive in believing he would replace a camera so much time after the auction.
More trustable sellers have better descriptions, test the gear before selling it, they answer your questions before your bid, and everything else that good sellers do. You can ask here, many of us have made good experiences with some. "cupog" comes to my mind, for instance, who CLA's and services his items himself and describes them very accurately. "alex-photo" is also honest, though his descriptions seem too short. Or Yuri Davidenko ("h_o_h_o_l" formerly "d_v_d_t_e_c_h_n_i_kk") took once a Kiev 4 back I had bought from him and which was not 100% ok, repaired it and sent it back with some goodies - and this off-ebay as I had bought it directly on his website.
Didier
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nobbylon
Veteran
There must be a need for some kind of blacklist for sellers who pull this kind of stunt. a sticky maybe, that could be referenced before parting with our hard earned!
MRohlfing
Well-known
JonP said:
Please try http://www.wortfilter.de/bew90.html
for feedback even after more than 90 days.
You have to enter the username of that guy and the number of the auction (the webpage is in German). They say it works via Ebay in the Philippines (!!). I have never tried it, though.
Please keep us informed, whether it works!
Michael
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
man i am so fed up with dishonest sellers.
Out of this forum, it is SO damn rare to receive a camera really as it was advertised.
I just bought a 3.5F rolleiflex, not really cheap, on a dutch auction site. "Perfect working condition, slight signs of use". The slow speeds all over the place, the self timer sticks all the time, a spring is missing from under the half-broken hood release lever on one side, and the pin blocking the bottom lever that keeps the back fixed, is replaced amateurishly by a brass screw with an oversized head(!!!).
Yeah right, i can understand your problem.
Also - i NEVER understood the policy of always trusting the seller. When you buy stg, first you pay, then hope for the best. If turns out to be stinky, although the seller DID already prove to be not really trustworthy, you have to trust him AGAIN and send him back the item and hope for refunding...again.
Why not the other way around???My cash is good cash! it's not missing a screw, it is not sticking, it does not have fungus.
Out of this forum, it is SO damn rare to receive a camera really as it was advertised.
I just bought a 3.5F rolleiflex, not really cheap, on a dutch auction site. "Perfect working condition, slight signs of use". The slow speeds all over the place, the self timer sticks all the time, a spring is missing from under the half-broken hood release lever on one side, and the pin blocking the bottom lever that keeps the back fixed, is replaced amateurishly by a brass screw with an oversized head(!!!).
Yeah right, i can understand your problem.
Also - i NEVER understood the policy of always trusting the seller. When you buy stg, first you pay, then hope for the best. If turns out to be stinky, although the seller DID already prove to be not really trustworthy, you have to trust him AGAIN and send him back the item and hope for refunding...again.
Why not the other way around???My cash is good cash! it's not missing a screw, it is not sticking, it does not have fungus.
nobbylon
Veteran
ah the joys of Marktplaats perhaps?!
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
yes indeed
I plan to get the 'flex serviced (a 'flex is still a 'flex, and lenses, focus seems fine) and convince the seller to pay at least part of the costs.
If he does not, well.. i will curse him bad
I plan to get the 'flex serviced (a 'flex is still a 'flex, and lenses, focus seems fine) and convince the seller to pay at least part of the costs.
If he does not, well.. i will curse him bad
sirius
Well-known
At least it was a Fed and not a Leica!
Sorry to hear about your troubles. It's every eBayer's nightmare.
Sorry to hear about your troubles. It's every eBayer's nightmare.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Sorry to hear you had problems. Here's some tips for the future:
- Don't wait two months before checking the camera's basic functions! You don't need a working lens to see if film transport works, for example. In that case, send the whole package back.
- Threaten negative feedback considerably before the 90 day period runs out. The seller you indicated has 1 negative feedback out of well over 200, and that's for a shipping problem; all other negatives were settled bilaterally. In this case, another negative feedback with a problem description is highly undesirable for a seller, and he seems ready to look for other, more communicative solutions.
- If things take long, insist upon a refund instead of replacement or repair. Money is easily transferred, cameras aren't. The seller's trust failed you once, don't trust him a second time.
Philipp
- Don't wait two months before checking the camera's basic functions! You don't need a working lens to see if film transport works, for example. In that case, send the whole package back.
- Threaten negative feedback considerably before the 90 day period runs out. The seller you indicated has 1 negative feedback out of well over 200, and that's for a shipping problem; all other negatives were settled bilaterally. In this case, another negative feedback with a problem description is highly undesirable for a seller, and he seems ready to look for other, more communicative solutions.
- If things take long, insist upon a refund instead of replacement or repair. Money is easily transferred, cameras aren't. The seller's trust failed you once, don't trust him a second time.
Philipp
Kim Coxon
Moderator
I have not had that many problems but have a few. Some were dodgy sellers and some with good sellers. One thought I was trying it on. There are bad buyers as well after all After I had an independant report done, he came to an amicable solution. One thing I willalways do is file a Paypal or eBay complaint before the deadline regardless of what they promise. It is very easy to retract it but at least I still have some protection and once filed there is no deadline so the guy can't stall till he is in the clear.
Kim
After I had an independant report done, he came to an amicable solution. One thing I willalways do is file a Paypal or eBay complaint before the deadline regardless of what they promise. It is very easy to retract it but at least I still have some protection and once filed there is no deadline so the guy can't stall till he is in the clear.Kim
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ferider
Veteran
MRohlfing said:
Thats very cool, Michael, Thanks !
NickolasB
Member
Hello all.
I too sell cameras and the other equipment on eBay and I from Russia.
I, as well as any seller have disputable and negative moments, but I try to settle a problem always. I do not know details of this situation, but I think that any problem can be solved. I not once made repair of cameras at my expense, in a case if quality did not satisfy the buyer or the post service has damaged it (to me to make repairing easier than to wait for compensation from post service). However there is something of that many buyers do not know.
1. Unlike sellers from the USA or Europe the Russian sellers pay huge total commission fee. The reason - PayPal in Russia does not allow to receive money but only to send. As a result sellers should use the companies-intermediaries which are in USA or Europe and allow to accept money for the PayPal, collecting the HUGE commission. For example www.westernbid.com, seller-online.com, CCNOW.com (I use CCNOW). So the seller from Russia pays: the commission eBay at auction installation (1... 3 %), the commission at successful sale (5... 10 % - 5 % if auction sale, 10 % if eBay store sales), PayPal fee (3... 5 %), PayPal conversion spread (2.5 % - for example - if item in Euros, but PayPal account of intermediary service in USD), Intermediary service (5... 9 % - CCNOW 5 %, Westernbid 9 %) + 2... 5 % for money transfer from USA\Europe to Russia. Total in general the seller pays from 16 % (very seldom) to 34 %. That is, if you have paid to the person 100$ for a camera together with transfer it will give IN THE BEGINNING about 30 % of commission fee after that from remained 70$ will pay 25-30$ for transfer and to it remains 40-45$, it is no more.
2. Do not think that cameras in Russia cost 1$ - we here buy them very much and very expensively as the price on eBay does not become more, and the price in Russia increases every month.
3. Repair and professional maintenance service of cameras in Russia costs also expensively. Be not under a delusion, buying a camera for 20-30$ and thinking that in a reality tested it with a film. The purchase price in Russia such cameras 15-20$, the most simple repair (for example greasing of details or replacement of a head of speeds) costs from 10$ and is more expensive, repair shooter costs nearby 20-25$ (for an example - even if one speed does not work). Consider - the seller will buy the camera for 15$, will make repair for 15$, will pay 30 % of the commission and for transfer - as a result will receive negative profit, that is losses.
4. If you do not know, ANY seller is not protected absolutely not from fraud buyers. After all 90 % of buyers do not wish to pay the insurance or for fast EMS mail. As a result the buyer even HAVING received the goods can make the complaint in PayPal and return ALL money, and PayPal will not interest at all, that purchase is really received, and in a case if is not received - the buyer has not paid for the insurance. That is the buyer does not pay the insurance, and receives it free of charge from PayPal - thus the seller is not protected in general.
Thank you.
Nickolay
p.s. Be more tolerant
I too sell cameras and the other equipment on eBay and I from Russia.
I, as well as any seller have disputable and negative moments, but I try to settle a problem always. I do not know details of this situation, but I think that any problem can be solved. I not once made repair of cameras at my expense, in a case if quality did not satisfy the buyer or the post service has damaged it (to me to make repairing easier than to wait for compensation from post service). However there is something of that many buyers do not know.
1. Unlike sellers from the USA or Europe the Russian sellers pay huge total commission fee. The reason - PayPal in Russia does not allow to receive money but only to send. As a result sellers should use the companies-intermediaries which are in USA or Europe and allow to accept money for the PayPal, collecting the HUGE commission. For example www.westernbid.com, seller-online.com, CCNOW.com (I use CCNOW). So the seller from Russia pays: the commission eBay at auction installation (1... 3 %), the commission at successful sale (5... 10 % - 5 % if auction sale, 10 % if eBay store sales), PayPal fee (3... 5 %), PayPal conversion spread (2.5 % - for example - if item in Euros, but PayPal account of intermediary service in USD), Intermediary service (5... 9 % - CCNOW 5 %, Westernbid 9 %) + 2... 5 % for money transfer from USA\Europe to Russia. Total in general the seller pays from 16 % (very seldom) to 34 %. That is, if you have paid to the person 100$ for a camera together with transfer it will give IN THE BEGINNING about 30 % of commission fee after that from remained 70$ will pay 25-30$ for transfer and to it remains 40-45$, it is no more.
2. Do not think that cameras in Russia cost 1$ - we here buy them very much and very expensively as the price on eBay does not become more, and the price in Russia increases every month.
3. Repair and professional maintenance service of cameras in Russia costs also expensively. Be not under a delusion, buying a camera for 20-30$ and thinking that in a reality tested it with a film. The purchase price in Russia such cameras 15-20$, the most simple repair (for example greasing of details or replacement of a head of speeds) costs from 10$ and is more expensive, repair shooter costs nearby 20-25$ (for an example - even if one speed does not work). Consider - the seller will buy the camera for 15$, will make repair for 15$, will pay 30 % of the commission and for transfer - as a result will receive negative profit, that is losses.
4. If you do not know, ANY seller is not protected absolutely not from fraud buyers. After all 90 % of buyers do not wish to pay the insurance or for fast EMS mail. As a result the buyer even HAVING received the goods can make the complaint in PayPal and return ALL money, and PayPal will not interest at all, that purchase is really received, and in a case if is not received - the buyer has not paid for the insurance. That is the buyer does not pay the insurance, and receives it free of charge from PayPal - thus the seller is not protected in general.
Thank you.
Nickolay
p.s. Be more tolerant
David Murphy
Veteran
I've had nothing but good experiences buying from FSU sellers (and Eastern Europe). I've only bought a few items, but they were always exactly as described and shipping was combined for multiple purchases. I don't buy a lot of FSU gear, but I think these sellers are doing us a great service overall and keeping the hobby more vital and interesting by allowing new persons to enter it at modest cost!
JonP
Established
I know that most sellers are honest, as are most buyers, at least that is the way things started out. I have had no problems with any other Eastern European/FSU sellers, a few hiccups but nothing worth writing about. I understand that their margins are not great, and appreciate it being possible to purchase these extraordinary items when once it would have only been possible by visiting the countries.
The thing that concerned me was the blatant resale (even showing the serial numbers) of an item returned for repair.
As for going with reputable sellers only, please remember that even reputable sellers had to start with zero feedback sometime. So I like to give new sellers a chance, maybe they have different sources and maybe they will surprise you.
Since my first post the seller concerned has written saying he has canceled the sale and will investigate, maybe I am being naive or too trusting of people, but maybe it was an honest mistake - I will let you know.
The thing that concerned me was the blatant resale (even showing the serial numbers) of an item returned for repair.
As for going with reputable sellers only, please remember that even reputable sellers had to start with zero feedback sometime. So I like to give new sellers a chance, maybe they have different sources and maybe they will surprise you.
Since my first post the seller concerned has written saying he has canceled the sale and will investigate, maybe I am being naive or too trusting of people, but maybe it was an honest mistake - I will let you know.
dee
Well-known
NikolasB 's comments are interesting . I have had a couple of bad experiences , but , as JonP says most have been good .
This one however sounds like the worst case of selling a camera alredy known to be faulty , which has been sold before with no refund ... maybe I shall stick to Leica copies from known , if sometimes imperfect suppliers !
I have 4 cameras sent to one dealer for cla / return , but have not heard if the seller has received them , i have no reason whatsoever to distrust the seller , but am getting a bit anxious - I can't afford to lose 4 cameras !
dee
This one however sounds like the worst case of selling a camera alredy known to be faulty , which has been sold before with no refund ... maybe I shall stick to Leica copies from known , if sometimes imperfect suppliers !
I have 4 cameras sent to one dealer for cla / return , but have not heard if the seller has received them , i have no reason whatsoever to distrust the seller , but am getting a bit anxious - I can't afford to lose 4 cameras !
dee