Proud to be an American

[KenR]

Must be contagious - check out "Frank Version Two" for his version of the sign.

 

[blw]

Why would political discourse need to pass your standards? If someone believes Obama is Kenyan and thinks he should be deported, why should they be quiet about it? I wouldn't, would you?

Quite right Ranchu and I beg your pardon. I always assumed "discourse" meant or roughly equated to "exchange of ideas". However upon checking with dictionary.com, I see my assumption was a bit misguided- as their definitions refer only to singular speech.

The phrase I should have used to properly convey my message was either "political exchange" or "political debate". In light of my revised wording, I stand my my disappointment that this is where the "exchange" has sunk to. Perhaps you would agree with me that yelling, shouting, and bumper stickers are not exactly a "political exchange".

 

[SciAggie]

I am looking at this thread from a different perspective. In a debate of still photography vs. video, I am amazed at the power of a single image to create such a discussion with such powerful feelings. I do not believe a video would have created this debate.

There is the thread running about John Free insulting rangefinders that was sparked by a video. As I read the two, the range of comments is restricted in the video discussion to the content of the video (mostly). This discussion has gained a life of it's own - I think the still image allowed that.

My two cents worth.

 

[Ranchu]

Quite right Ranchu and I beg your pardon. I always assumed "discourse" meant or roughly equated to "exchange of ideas". However upon checking with dictionary.com, I see my assumption was a bit misguided- as their definitions refer only to singular speech.

The phrase I should have used to properly convey my message was either "political exchange" or "political debate". In light of my revised wording, I stand my my disappointment that this is where the "exchange" has sunk to. Perhaps you would agree with me that yelling, shouting, and bumper stickers are not exactly a "political exchange".

Well ok, I'm sorry. The thing is, there is a place for yelling, shouting, and bumperstickers, and they're often more relevant than the tripe peddled by pundits 24/7. That birth certificate does look a little funny, and USAID is often a front for the CIA. http://www.sadlyno.com/

 

[crawdiddy]

Oh, it's a nasty comment from the old world, how embarrassing. So, anybody at the protests in Greece?

Samuel Johnson died in 1784. America, as a society and nation, was certainly immature at that time. Perhaps jingoistic also, although that may be more of a value judgment, depending on your perspective.

 

[bob338]

The common people here are mostly very nice people. My problem is the leaders here, who have worked very hard to make Indiana an almost unlivable place for anyone with any education. It wasn't like that when i was younger. A lot of the middle class is made up of really nasty people who hate anyone less fortunate than themselves in the mistaken belief that it doing so will keep their corporate owners from laying them off and sending them into the lower classes as well. That attitude was not here when I was younger either.

The poor didn't make Indiana the place it is today:

I grew up in Indiana in the 70s(I'm assuming around the same time as you) and I remember what it was like back then. The 'common people' hated the minorities, and the northerners hated us white-trash southerners. The words I learned as a kid are shocking now, but then it was common, and this was 10 years after civil rights!
Ignorance and hatred are not limited to upper and middle classes, the poor hate the poorer just the same.

 

[Tompas]

(...) flags flying (...) in poor and working class neighborhoods in the city, some on recently abandoned homes like the one in this photograph. Patriotic displays are nearly non-existant in middle class areas, and are completely absent in wealthy areas of Fort Wayne. (...)

Hmmm... Doesn't that observation explain it all?

 

[Tompas]

A lot of Europeans act like they can't wait to see the USA and our people reduced to poverty. (...)

Well, if I may speak for the German part of Europe, I think this is not true at all. Germans, as a rule, like Americans, and even those who don't very much look over the ocean in concern about the USA's economical and political problems.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I grew up in Indiana in the 70s(I'm assuming around the same time as you) and I remember what it was like back then. The 'common people' hated the minorities, and the northerners hated us white-trash southerners. The words I learned as a kid are shocking now, but then it was common, and this was 10 years after civil rights!
Ignorance and hatred are not limited to upper and middle classes, the poor hate the poorer just the same.

I'm younger than you, I was born in 1975 so my childhood, as I remember it, was in the 1980s. I also grew up in the second largest city in the state, so attitudes toward the poor and toward black people were a lot different than in small towns. I know there used to be Sundown Towns all over rural Indiana, and some of them probably still have the same attitude today.

 

[oftheherd]

What a fascinating thread!

I guess patriotism in the USA has been partly cultural and partly historical. We talk about the patriots of the revolutionary time, and since, and believe it to be a good thing. I grew up on patriotism, having been born just before the USA was forced into WWII. Seems natural to me and I can't understand not being that way.

But I understand things have changed somewhat. There has been a great deal of liberalism in the last few years. Now to an extent that is OK. But extremes are no good, not liberalism, nor conservatism.

But it has been enlightening to hear what I think are mostly European views against patritism. I had always thought that Europeans were patriotic. Of course, that is mostly from movies of the war and immediately after. Maybe we viewed them that way as we thought that was how we would be.

Are Europeans not proud of their countries? Is it just the local communities? This is interesting, to me at least.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

This is the kind of jingoistic statement many are referring to when they state some opposition to patriotism .
Patriotism is ok..keep it in your borders. The `ENTIRE WORLD `may have a different plan.
regards
CW

With so many of the world's economies dependent on exports to the US for their wealth, the 'rest of the world' may not have a choice if the USA fails economically. Europe is the only part of the world whose economy could realistically survive without trade with the US. All those Asian countries that are supposedly doing better than the United States would crash and burn spectacularly if we stopped buying from them.

 

[Paul T.]

A country which has no history to fall back on has to invent a mythology in order for its people to unite and put up with what their government and big business is doing to them.

There are many forms of nationalism but the American one is jingoistic and immature, and it fits very well under the maxim that "patriotism is the last refuge for the scoundrel". -Samuel Johnson

Samuel Johnson would be the first to point out you've made an elementary error.

He did indeed say that patriotism was the refuge of the scoundrel. He was talking about England. Where he lived. The last thing he'd do is say that one form of patriotism is worse than another. That would be a contradiction in terms - a category error, in today's lingo.

I see that this conversation has deteriorated into a debate on whether America is a benign influence, which is sad. Or whether Obama is Kenyan.I have a feeling we're not going to resolve it.

 

[Out to Lunch]

We are not going to be able to operate our Spaceship Earth successfully nor for much longer unless we see it as a whole spaceship and our fate as common. It has to be everybody or nobody.
R. Buckminster Fuller

 

[oftheherd]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pakeha
This is the kind of jingoistic statement many are referring to when they state some opposition to patriotism .
Patriotism is ok..keep it in your borders. The `ENTIRE WORLD `may have a different plan.
regards
CW
__________________________________________________________________________

I don't think those of us in the USA, nor can I imagine anywhere else, would expect other countries to be patriotic about the USA. How could it be otherwise?

 

[jsrockit]

Patriotism is ok..keep it in your borders.

Hmmm, this is impossible just like it is impossible to tell people from other countries not to be patriotic about their country when in another country. I have plenty of friends who live in the US, were born outside the US, and fly flags of their origin while living in the US. People migrate and are proud of their origins... deal with it.

 

[jan normandale]

Chris I'm way way off topic here on this photograph. What I found in your image was not what everyone else found.

I found a lot of irony in the fact that someone had that sign in the window of their abandoned / reposessed home that was probably taken back by the Financial institutions who loaned money at rates and amounts that time has shown to be dangerous to homeowners and to lenders. The lenders are still around, the homeowner isn't. Finally I'll bet they both have a "Proud to Be American" sign or it's counterpart on display.

That's irony.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

As a result of this thread, I learned some interesting facts.

There were 26 school bus related fatalities in a recent year, far down from 1975- which is the year I graduated from High School. 15 fatalities were loading/unloading from a Bus.

There were 250 school bus related fatalities in Europe, most of the fatalities were from loading and unloading from the bus.


http://safeway2school-eu.org/assets/docs/SW2S_Leaflet.pdf

But rather than state that this law, inconvenient for so many, makes me proud- I will just send an Email to the European Commission and suggest that they adopt this common sense law that has proven so successful in safeguarding children.


http://www.sumnerbus.com/SchoolBusSafety.htm

Nations can learn from one another, if they put the bigotry aside.

 

[Paul T.]

What a fascinating thread!

I guess patriotism in the USA has been partly cultural and partly historical. WI had always thought that Europeans were patriotic.

Are Europeans not proud of their countries? Is it just the local communities? This is interesting, to me at least.

It is an interesting question. It's worth reading about it, or visiting Europe, and asking people what they think.

Firstly, Europeans understand how Patriotism is exploited - the Brits in WW1, the Germans in WW2. We all lost generations, to jingoism.

And Europeans are closer to each other. It's harder to look down on other cultures when you know them. We can't feel inherently superior to the people who produce Chateauneuf du Pape, or Parmesan cheese.

 

[Jamie123]

I never felt much patriotism for any of the three countries I have citizenship of. Go figure.

 

[SimonSawSunlight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxx3WoU--k&feature=related