Proud to be an American

[Ezzie]

Hmmm, this is impossible just like it is impossible to tell people from other countries not to be patriotic about their country when in another country. I have plenty of friends who live in the US, were born outside the US, and fly flags of their origin while living in the US. People migrate and are proud of their origins... deal with it.

Agreed. I've yet to meet and American that thinks about celebrating St Patrick's day as non-patriotic, nor kilts being worn by practically all the east coast fire and police dept marching bands, left, right and centre. Its a celebration of the people's origins. I too wear a kilt, in Norway. Why shouldn't I?

 

[Olsen]

Proud to be black, proud to be American, proud to be ...... The Americans are a proud lot. Nothing wrong with that per se. But its a rather strange concept to blatantly say so for many Europeans, and Norwegians in particular. We (I count myself as one when I feel like it) may think we are something, but we hate to say so, unless drunk or abroad (even more so if both).

I just like the tones of Chris' Tri-X in PMK work, its rich without being too contrasty.

Agree,

In Norway, you will stand out as being vulgar and tasteless if you claimed that 'I am proud to be a Norwegian'. We are encouraged not to overdo the use of national symbols, even. The Norwegian fascists did that during WWII. You will soon be related to them, which offers you no future in today's Norway.

I am proud of having stopped smoking, now, six years ago. But that does not count, does it?

 

[FalseDigital]

I'm proud to be leaving America.
I was born in America, lived here my whole life.
Fortunately I was able to travel a lot at an early age. I've seen that most American's are living in a blind folded world. There are so many other great countries to live in.

I visited Thailand for 7 months. I find that they have much more "freedom" than America. A lot less bull**** rules, a lot more family centered culture, a lot better food. AND they pay photographers more than almost every American company I've dealt with in the states. (I've been in NYC for a year and I've worked for chinese companies the entire time because most American companies just "hire" unpaid interns for "exposure")

So I'm moving to Bangkok in a month. I absolutely love it there.

There's nothing wrong with being content where you live. However I think it's the dumbest statement ever to claim that America is "The greatest country in the world"

 

[rover]

all from one little photo

 

[Olsen]

Saddam Hussein threatened to switch from US$ to EURO for oil deals. Look what happened to him.

Europe will not be allowed in the next 20 years to use the EURO for oil.

Sorry, but this is a myth. Crude oil is traded in all kinds of currencies today. Increasingly so with the falling value of the US$. Even though the crude oil price is 'reported' in US$ in the media etc.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Two further thoughts occur to me:

First, it it is foolish (and all but meaningless) to conflate any nation as it is today with the 'same' nation 50, 100 or 200 years ago. Of course there are those who would like to see racism and homophobia resurrected, but (quite properly) they are regarded as not too bright.

Second, the oft-banged drum about "America saving Europe in their wars" is drivel. Sure, the Allies couldn't have won WW2 without the Americans, but they couldn't have won without the Russians either (look at the casualty figures sometime), and without the British opposing the Nazis to begin with ("Choosing the winning side before there was anyone else on it", in Dennis Healey's famous riposte to Cap Weinberger) there'd have been a Nazi Europe. Admittedly this might not have worried Henry Ford, Joe Kennedy and quite a number of other American industrialists and politicians.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The numbers in the European document were specific to school bus fatalities. I do not have their raw data.

As far as the law in the US- it saves lives. A significant reduction over the last 40 years.

So: the statement regarding the law requiring drivers to stop for school buses is far from pointless, and the measures of effectiveness bear that out.

A lot of statements are being made in this thread without supporting documentation. A lot of revisions to history being made.

As far as this thread- Off Topic.

 

[Lss]

But what the hell does it mean for any country to be the greatest in the world? Greatest in what?

According to Newsweek 2010 study, the best country in the world is Finland. This is a fairly nice piece in the sense that most looking at it will probably disagree to some degree about the weights in their scoring, the methods and metrics they used, and therefore the final results. It's pretty complicated to say which things really matter and how much, and have two people really agree. Greatness in size (population, economy, military, whatever quantifiable) is much easier to judge and claim.

 

[Olsen]

Oh, it's a nasty comment from the old world, how embarrassing. So, anybody at the protests in Greece?

It was nasty, and I don't agree with it.

Don't worry about Greece. They just might default. But their economy is less than that of a typical suburb in China. Nor is it a serious European crisis. If it had been; they would have nationalized. Now they are privatizing....

Nor will it kill the Euro. The Euro is very important for trade between European states and will not go away. It is overvalued. That's true. It will come down.

Nor will the Greek default sink the European Union. As the WSJ wants you to to believe. It is as realistic as if 'Washington' would - freely, give away it's power over USA. The same goes for EU. Sadly enough....

 

[Roger Hicks]

The numbers in the European document were specific to school bus fatalities. I do not have their raw data.As far as the law in the US- it saves lives. A significant reduction over the last 40 years.

So: the statement regarding the law requiring drivers to stop for school buses is far from pointless, and the measures of effectiveness bear that out.

A lot of statements are being made in this thread without supporting documentation. A lot of revisions to history being made.

As far as this thread- Off Topic.

Dear Brian,

I'm not sure they do either. That's why I'm asking for the supporting documentation whose lack you bemoan. IF it can be shown that stopping for school buses reduces child fatalities I will immediately support it. But as far as I am aware, US laws requiring people to stop for school buses go back more than 40 years. When I first encountered this custom/law on the US Navy Base in Bermuda in 1966 or so, and expressed surprise, I was told that stopping for school buses was the norm in the USA, with the implication that it had always (or long) been like this. In which case any diminution in fatalities in the last 40 years (since 1971) might need other explanations.

I have never verified the age or geographical distribution of US school bus stopping laws, but on the information available to me, I remain sceptical. This is NOT the same as saying, "My mind is made up. Do not confuse me with the facts."

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

It was nasty, and I don't agree with it.

Don't worry about Greece. They just might default. But their economy is less than that of a typical suburb in China. Nor is it a serious European crisis. If it had been; they would have nationalized. Now they are privatizing....

Nor will it kill the Euro. The Euro is very important for trade between European states and will not go away. It is overvalued. That's true. It will come down.

Nor will the Greek default sink the European Union. As the WSJ wants you to to believe. It is as realistic as if 'Washington' would - freely, give away it's power over USA. The same goes for EU. Sadly enough....

Dear Olsen,

Possibly. But I'm intrigued at how hard-line free-market types accept the rules and logic of the free market only when it suits them. The discredited, weak, feeble, threatened euro has been a lot stronger than the sturdily independent pound sterling or the mighty dollar for rather a long time now, which may give a hint on which way the markets are betting.

Cheers,

R.

 

[atlcruiser]

Dear David,

You must surely know the phrase, "an accident of birth". Through an "accident of birth" my brother has dual Maltese and British nationality (born in Malta to British parents, father serving in Royal Navy). YOU personally had nothing to do with where YOU were born. By all means be proud of what your forebears did, but pride in where you were born? That's pretty weird and irrational.

And I know it is. As I said in another post, I'm glad to be a Cornishman, and feel sorry for others who do not have that good fortune. As soon as I examine my own feelings, though, I can see that for the joke that it is. We are all capable of irrationality. It's just that some of us are also capable of recognizing it when we think about it.


Finally, the whole idea of "leaving for a better life in America" can quite easily be turned on its head. Perhaps there are those who are proud that their ancestors didn't run away to a foreign country, but stayed and built the nations in which they were born. Put like that, it sounds like an insult. But then, "America is the greatest" can sound like an insult too, if it carries the implication that all other nations are inferior.

Cheers,

R.

I just dont agree with you. It is no accident I was born here and there is not a thing in the world wrong with me being patriotic or proud of my country nor you not being proud of yours.

How others feel about their nation of birth matters little to me nor should how I feel matter to them.

I will be the first to step up and agree with and point out the myrid issues with the United States yet there is no other place in the world nor has there ever been that affords the individual the opportunities and freedoms available here.


I think what I am proud of is that even as messed up as we are and can be we still seem to stumble right along.

 

[Ranchu]

Second, the oft-banged drum about "America saving Europe in their wars" is drivel. Sure, the Allies couldn't have won WW2 without the Americans, but they couldn't have won without the Russians either (look at the casualty figures sometime), and without the British opposing the Nazis to begin with ("Choosing the winning side before there was anyone else on it", in Dennis Healey's famous riposte to Cap Weinberger) there'd have been a Nazi Europe. Admittedly this might not have worried Henry Ford, Joe Kennedy and quite a number of other American industrialists and politicians.

Cheers,

R.

Dear Roger,

This seems a bit of a stretch to me. As I understand it, Russia had a treaty with Hitler, and wouldn't have been fighting him unless he had attacked them. I don't know why you would need to minimize US help in WWII, we sent you food too, even if it was Spam. Many Americans died fighting Hitler, and he never did get to Britland, did he?

Cheers,

R.

 

[dave lackey]

Dear Brian,

I'm not sure they do either. That's why I'm asking for the supporting documentation whose lack you bemoan. IF it can be shown that stopping for school buses reduces child fatalities I will immediately support it. But as far as I am aware, US laws requiring people to stop for school buses go back more than 40 years. When I first encountered this custom/law on the US Navy Base in Bermuda in 1966 or so, and expressed surprise, I was told that stopping for school buses was the norm in the USA, with the implication that it had always (or long) been like this. In which case any diminution in fatalities in the last 40 years (since 1971) might need other explanations.

I have never verified the age or geographical distribution of US school bus stopping laws, but on the information available to me, I remain sceptical. This is NOT the same as saying, "My mind is made up. Do not confuse me with the facts."

Cheers,

R.

Well, this thread is offensive to me in that it has become an argumentative thread about nationalities and such. I will not participate in that.

I will, however, give you specific evidence that I have seen children, my own who were saved by making drivers stop for a school bus when the children ignored the bus driver's instructions and rules by running across the street in front of cars. It happened to my own children. Now, with my own grandchildren, I can relate that as a child at age 11, I wound up on the hood of an automobile myself but escaped injury. I am grateful for the laws requiring stopping for school busses.

On local news, numerous times in the past year, I have seen journalists on the scene where kids have been killed by cars not stopping. That is good enough evidence for me. I don't have to wait for one of my kids or my neighbors kids to get killed to organize an effort for a new law that already exists.

With that, carry on as I do not like the tone of this thread.:angel:

 

[Ranchu]

Dear Olsen,

Possibly. But I'm intrigued at how hard-line free-market types accept the rules and logic of the free market only when it suits them. The discredited, weak, feeble, threatened euro has been a lot stronger than the sturdily independent pound sterling or the mighty dollar for rather a long time now, which may give a hint on which way the markets are betting.

Cheers,

R.

Dear Roger,

I'm not a 'hard line free market type', and I'm not concerned about the euro's viability. The struggle of Greece is about whether supranational banking cartels are allowed to impose their blood sucking ways on sovereign nations and people. There are no 'rules and logic of the free market', finance is a rent seeking scam.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Ranchu]

As far as German invasion of Brittan is concerned, if you read a proper history book you'd learn that Hitler could never invade Brittan unless he controlled the sky and he lost that battle with RAF in the famous battle of Brittan, long before Americans joined the war.

Well, whatever gets you through the night, claact. I'll take your word for it then.