Pulling & Pushing color films

LeicaFoReVer

LeicaFoReVer

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Does that exist? Do you pull or push?

I heard in rff that people over-expose the color films as they are told that they require more light because of three-layers they have but let say if you meter your 200 iso film as 100 iso then do you process it as 100 or 200?
 
In your example you'd tell the lab to run it minus one. In practice I'd run some frames at the start of the roll for a test and get a clip test. Sometimes -1 exposure is better at -2/3 development.

I've always had better results with slide film than with print film. I often will pull slide film a bit to help reduce contrast. Bracketing is key for any critical work- and clip testing.

I'd say a half stop pull can be a big help in contrast reduction, and max a 1 stop push with slide film- but grain will certainly become more prominent. I've never had much luck pushing color print film- gets very grainy in my experience, tho I've not tried for years (after several poor results). Don;t know that I've ever tried pulling color print film thinking about it.
 
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Slides, yes, easily and often, typically from -1/2 to +1 (changes in first dev time).

Neg: as Sepiareverb says, theoretically possible but rarely satisfactory. Overexposure is rarely a problem anyway: slightly reduced sharpness, slightly finer grain.

Cheers,

R.
 
I exposed my 200 iso film like 100. So what does it mean to tell the lab run it minus one?

Previous roll I did the same but had it developed at normal 200 iso and the results were not good (well I guess it depends on the film. mine is sh.ty lucky 200iso color negative)

I think I am confused with the terminalogy:

does pulling mean overexposing and processing at lower iso?
so just overexposing means you overexpose but process it at normal iso?

I usually have my slides overexpose but process at their normal isos with good results.
 
LeicaFoReVer said:
I exposed my 200 iso film like 100. So what does it mean to tell the lab run it minus one?

Previous roll I did the same but had it developed at normal 200 iso and the results were not good (well I guess it depends on the film. mine is sh.ty lucky 200iso color negative)

I think I am confused with the terminalogy:

does pulling mean overexposing and processing at lower iso?
so just overexposing means you overexpose but process it at normal iso?

I usually have my slides overexpose but process at their normal isos with good results.
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Yes. A stop of overexposure on Lucky colour neg will do no harm at all. If anything, the opposite.

Cheers,

R.
 
I would tend to overexpose most neg films, say, expose Portra 160 at 100, Portra 400 at 320 etc. Slide films I tend to get the results I want exposing at box speed. Many in the Lomo scene push/pull slide films though to get the colour casts they like etc.
 
thegman said:
I would tend to overexpose most neg films, say, expose Portra 160 at 100, Portra 400 at 320 etc. Slide films I tend to get the results I want exposing at box speed. Many in the Lomo scene push/pull slide films though to get the colour casts they like etc.
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Same here, EXCEPT Ektar 100.

Cheers,

R.
 
Most 'amateur' colour negative film, if exposed at box speed (ie, its official ISO), is actually overexposed. For instance Superia 100 has an effective EI of 160.

Overexposing Lucky color film ISO 200 by one stop to EI 100 is not going to be bad. It will probably do more good.

A bit of overexposure will tend to give a slight punch to the hues.

It's also not a good idea to push process colour film. This has something to do with how the colour layers develop. These layers actually develop at different rates- and the official 3.15-3.20 min/sec at 38C is optimised so that all layers develop to produce the target dye densities in each layer.

When this timing is altered, as would be in push processing, the dyes no longer form at the same rate and unwanted extra densities in one layer can cause problems like cross overs. That 'pushed' negative would then have a colour shift which can no longer be corrected through normal printing filtration methods.
 
So technically pushing or pulling of a color negative film is not desirable. Instead we overexpose and process it at box speed. Is that right?
 
LeicaFoReVer said:
So technically pushing or pulling of a color negative film is not desirable. Instead we overexpose and process it at box speed. Is that right?
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Changing the development time of colour negative films (as what happens in push/pull) is not going to be good for films NOT designed for pushing or pulling. There are some films however which can pushed or pulled. These may have special emulsions formulated to respond better to altered developing.

Overexposing is not always good either. Certain scenic or lighting conditions may not lend themselves to overexposure. It's always best to correctly expose. Some films which have lower colour saturation like Luckycolor may benefit from a bit of overexposure. Those which are already punchy may not. Some films which tend to go grainy and dense may not like overexposure either. One example is the (now defunct?) Ferrania/Imation ISO 400-800 colour negative stocks.
 
Oh color film, how I loved your ability to give me overexposure and underexposure in the same negative. I'm glad I don't use you anymore...
 
I push Portra 160VC as a rule for my own work. One stop - it's exactly the look I want. I overexpose the negative by half a stop on top of that. For something like this, it's good to experiment for your own tastes because asking advice on forums has some limitations. But in short, yes, pushing and pulling does exist for color films.
 
I shot a roll of Gold 100 once at EI 400 and had the lab push it. It seemed to work.

I've been meaning to try Portra 800 pushed. I hear EI 2000 with a +2 push is decent.

Oh, and color neg for cinema is pushed all the time.
 
MAN, I asked the lab to pull it to 100 iso and they all say that it is all automatic and they dont have control on choosing! How is that possible???

There is supposed to be a manual selection in their machines!
 
LeicaFoReVer said:
MAN, I asked the lab to pull it to 100 iso and they all say that it is all automatic and they dont have control on choosing! How is that possible???

There is supposed to be a manual selection in their machines!
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I use these guys a lot:
http://www.northcoastphoto.com/
They push or pull for $2.00 extra only. Usually you need a slightly higher end lab to ask for push or pull work.

This is a set of photos I pushed one stop (160VC Portra) and shot rated at 200ASA: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lic4/sets/72157622765822494/
There are some color shifts and added contrast - I like the kind of unexpected shifts, even though many might not find it to their tastes.
 
I realized that you can re-code DX code :) Someone posted the link to the site on how to do that. That might be an easy solution!
 
No that is how the machines detect the films iso in photo stores. So it must work. If I recode the film canister before I give it to the store for development, I can push or pull, otherwise they say they can not develop my 200iso color negative at 100iso.
 
LeicaFoReVer said:
No that is how the machines detect the films iso in photo stores. So it must work. If I recode the film canister before I give it to the store for development, I can push or pull, otherwise they say they can not develop my 200iso color negative at 100iso.
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All C41/colour negative film, regardless of ISO develops at one standard time: 3 minutes 15 secs at 38C. The ISO of the film does not matter- ISO 50 and ISO 1000 will develop for the same time.

The machines used in 1 hour lab AFAIK have a fixed development time. So all films that go through them will develop for the same time and at the same rate.

The only way you can "push" or alter the development is by hand-processing the film in a tank. Unless the machine used has been altered. Altering the mechanism of a film processor can be a very expensive thing to do- varying the time at which the film travels through the baths will require very complicated modification. Usually, the machines are powered by just one motor- if the gearing is altered for one bath, all the others follow as well.

The likely reason why your lab won't push is that their machine can't. And that they don't have the means to do manual tank processing.
 
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