Purely as an Investment: Leica film or Digital Cameras?

. . . I hear this a lot but there are plenty of examples of computers lasting for decades. The usefulness of these cameras might come into question, but they are not necessarily going to die within 5-10 year as people always seem to think. I truly think there will be digital cameras that will be hip to use for retro effect. It happens in everything else, why wouldn't it in cameras?
Decades? Seldom. Mainframes maybe, but home computers: I think not. My main use for computers is word processing, which is pretty undemanding, so I use 'em until they drop (with another computer for image processing). Even when they do last more than a decade, the software rarely remains acceptable/compatible. A dead hard drive is why I switched from Wordstar to Open Office.

Cheers,

R.
 
Decades? Seldom. Mainframes maybe, but home computers: I think not. My main use for computers is word processing, which is pretty undemanding, so I use 'em until they drop (with another computer for image processing). Even when they do last more than a decade, the software rarely remains acceptable/compatible.

Roger, we are not talking about relevance, we are talking about pure longevity. I have a few friends that have Apple II and Commodore 64 computers still running today. Just because they are not in your life, don't assume others aren't using them. There are many examples of electronics standing the test of time out there in the world. The Atari 2600 is a computer (of sorts) and those are still running today. They were introduced in 1977. Many vintage calculators out there too still going strong.
 
In general, I agree w/ Raid, lenses are probably more collectible then the actual camera body they belonged to these days.

But on the other hand, once u factor in inflation, was the value proposition really that good?

I personally have a hard time w/ any digital camera body being a good investment unless u were lucky to buy it at the low point on the used market and it has started to appreciate (less inflation).

Gary
 
Why would I even want an investment that holds its value? I want one that atleast doubles in value.
 
I hear this a lot but there are plenty of examples of computers lasting for decades. The usefulness of these cameras might come into question, but they are not necessarily going to die within 5-10 year as people always seem to think. I truly think there will be digital cameras that will be hip to use for retro effect. It happens in everything else, why wouldn't it in cameras?

I'd say it's too early to tell. The earliest microprocessors ever created are a lot younger than a typical Leica M3. People are still using Leica II models, but there is no microprocessor based computer that old, so we can't really compare them.

There were of course computers before microprocessors, but they were based on far simpler parts which can comparatively easily be recreated right now. It's relatively simple to make a resistor, a diode, a transistor, a capacitor etc, but once (say) a MIPS R12000 processor goes out of production, it'll take a minor miracle to get that production running again. Simpler, earlier processors could be emulated on an FPGA or the the like, but you'd still have to adapt the rest of the computer around it to accept the new processor.

Then we have the fairly obvious fact that digital camera like the M9 are not based on simple computers, they are microprocessor based, and those parts are either in production or they are not. It's not like a simple component like a capacitor, where a replacement will be easy to source. The fact is that in 50 years, the microprocessor(s) in side a Leica M9 will almost certainly have been out of production for decades.

Even if you could isolate the broken part, find a replacement, the chances of you being able to remove the old part and solder in a new one are pretty remote. The circuit boards were not made to be fixed/maintained any more than an iPhone was.
 
Have you seen the prices of original Nintendo systems lately? It's more than a spanking new Playstation 3.

Yes but what does that tell you about the original Nintendo systems (which sold in the millions). Basically the ones that are still running and in good condition are fairly rare. I suspect that is true of many computers made after the 1980s.

Basically it is true of digital cameras. The CMOS and CCD chips in them are not designed to be heavily used for a decade because everyone expects the body to be replaced long before then. Other than Leica, I expect the same is true of the mechanicals in modern cameras.

If you want a camera to hold its vale or appreciate, find a good working film camera in a thrift store. As long as 35mm film is produced for it and it continues to shoot, there ought to be some demand for it :).

--
Bill
 
medium format technical cameras specifically made to mate with backs will retain their value.

good investments are those with liquidity, IMO. I'd rather make a bit less on them but have them be easy to move when I am ready.

gl with those Apple stocks if you are getting in today, btw. get ready for a case of the Dutch tulips with that one.
 
The only current Leica digital that I could see 'holding' its value would be the Monochrom (maybe I'm biased as I have one), but as some have suggested, rarity and level of demand could be the guiding factors.

I bought my Leica III with its 50/2 Summar back in 1988, and paid $400 for the kit. Now here we are 25 years later, and it's probably still worth about that, maybe a bit less. Wouldn't call that particular one an investment.

As my Dad would remind me from time to time -- you make your money when you buy, not when you sell.
 
Even if you could isolate the broken part, find a replacement, the chances of you being able to remove the old part and solder in a new one are pretty remote. The circuit boards were not made to be fixed/maintained any more than an iPhone was.

W/ multi-layer circuit boards and current technology, if I remember correctly, even a simple part replacement on a part we brought to our manufacturing partner to c if the newer part solved an issue in the field we encountered, the expect failure rate was I think one in five boards, if I remember what was said in that meeting.

Gary
 
Reading this thread made me nostalgic.

I remember when I bought my first Leica cameras*in 1969. The guy at the camera shop looked at me askance, pulled out well-worn Leica IIc and IIf bodies, a pre-WWII Elmar 5.0cm f/3.5, and a '49 or so Elmar 3.5cm f/3.5, and said, "Gimme $99. Nobody wants old junk like this anymore. You'd be better off buying a new lens for your Nikon." They worked, I used them for a long time, and I missed them when they were lost. :)

Will I wax nostalgic in 2035 about my "sweet old M9"? I dunno ... I'll let you know in 2035. I guess if I'm still being nostalgic about the M9, I'll also have kind things to say about the Olympus E-1 at the same time.

G
 
Leica film M's in good condition will barely loose any value.
You can buy one , use it for 5 years and resell almost w/o loss.

I filled a new M7 ala carte order in 2011 for $5865, new. I bought it back last week for $2300. It's perfect with all the boxes, hardly any use.
 
Exactly.
Overall, both types of cameras will on average lose value over time.

However this is more than likely as low as it will ever go, assuming it's not abused. Digital will keep going lower...

There are always exceptions with collector models of course, the black paint M2s M3s KS-15s KE-7As, etc.
 
As far as medium format backs go, sold an IQ180 that had fewer than 900 shots on it. $45k new, less than a year later, it got $24k. Still had another year's warranty on it.
 
As far as medium format backs go, sold an IQ180 that had fewer than 900 shots on it. $45k new, less than a year later, it got $24k. Still had another year's warranty on it.

Could be worse, I remember I bought my Sun Ultra 1 workstation in about 2000 for about $1500. When it was released less than 5 years before, list price was about $28,000.
 
If the depreciating device is generating income, that's one thing. This back was used for hobby shooting. Depreciation: $23 per shot. ;)
 
However this is more than likely as low as it will ever go, assuming it's not abused. Digital will keep going lower...

There are always exceptions with collector models of course, the black paint M2s M3s KS-15s KE-7As, etc.
What's a KS-15s and a KE-7As pray tell.
 
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