Pushing Tri-X..in which developer ?

[alexz]

I noticed according to many users, Tri-X is very pushable up to 1600. I may need it at least to 800, probably higher. However, conducting recently ring-around test for one in HC-110 dill H and examining the results, 1 stop underexposed and N+1 overdeveloping in HC-110 dill H, albeint delivers good highlights, the shadows are nearly lost (at least after scnning in Nikon LS-40 scanner and as seen on my calibrated CRT).
I know, the general mantra suggests overexposure for saving shadows because exposure it what mainly controls shadows, but perhaps there are some recipes how to develop in HC-110 (or other commonly available developers) so that to recover some shadows along (while preserving more or less highlights...) ?

How do you in general manage with Tri-X pushed to 800 and 1600 (and in-between) ?

 

[erikhaugsby]

Use Rodinal 1+50. The stuff is magic.
18.5min for EI1600, not sure about EI800.

 

[aizan]

diafine or xtol.

 

[oftheherd]

Rodinal, Diafine, or Acufine. All work well. My first attempt many years ago was with D76 at 1600. Don't remember now if it was straight or 1 to 1, but believe it or not, that worked well too.

 

[alexz]

Use Rodinal 1+50. The stuff is magic.
18.5min for EI1600, not sure about EI800.

Just Rodinol for push ?? According to what I used to read on various forums inclduing here, Rodinal is mostly recommended for slow films, under 200, have never yet seen such to be advsed to push...go figure...
How do you find it for tri-X at 800 or higher ? contrast ? grain ?

 

[alexz]

Yes, I'm keeping to geta dvised on either Diafine or Acufine, took that into acount for the future. However, what about HC-110 ? Any chances/experiences to squeeze some good stuff with it in any dillution/temp from tri-X pushed to 800 and higher ?

 

[Jonathan R]

For years I have routinely used Tri-X at 800 ISO, developed in Tetenal Emofin. For old Tri-X I used 4min in each bath, for new Tri-X I find 3min 30 sec is best. Although I do occasionally experiment with others just to make sure, I am perfectly happy with this combination. I don't experience any loss of shadow detail and the highlights are very manageable.

 

[dcsang]

If you do a search you'll note that Merciful pushes it beyond ISO 12,800 - Rodinal is your key for that - I don't know if I would use Rodinal below ISO 3200 as there would be probably a lot of other choices for dev'ing Tri-X when it's in the ISO 800-1600 range.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[40oz]

D-76 1+1. You can use HC-110, I've just not experimented with that myself.

It doesn't really matter much. Everyone has a favorite, and nothing you use will result in anything comparable to shooting it at 200 EI like some people insist it be used at.

As far as "over-exposing," that makes no sense in the context of pushing film. If you had enough light to over-expose something, you wouldn't need to push it. You are pushing to get the shadow detail because if you didn't mind only getting the highlights, again, you wouldn't need to push anything. Your N+1 of under-exposed film wasn't pushing, it was just over-developing a bit.

You need to leave the film in the developer long enough to get some shadow detail, otherwise it's just "under-exposed." Of course, when you push-develop film, it loses some of the highlights as they blow out. It's the shadow detail you are looking for, so blown out highlights kind of goes with the territory. There is a limit to how far you can go, and a limit to how much of the scene's contrast the film can hold. Light sources will blow out much faster than shadow detail develops, so as you increase the push, you lose the ability to retain detail in the highlights.

As an example, this is Tri-X at 1600 EI in D-76 1+1:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=50227

In order to get any detail under the bridge, I had to let all the lights blow out. I wouldn't normally push a shot like that, but the rest of the roll was taken in a dark room. This is an extreme example, as you have both almost pitch black shadows under the bridge and bare street lamps. I liked the way it turned out, but it isn't representative of most scenes.

Here's another one of Tri-X at 1600 in D-76 1+1:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=55042

As you can see, depending on the scene, you can get quite a bit of detail without losing all highlights.

In general, I don't often see the point in pushing Tri-X to just 800. Most scenes work just fine at 1600, and you don't give up much. You're only gaining one stop at 800, which generally doesn't help me much. I'd rather be able to stop down from wide open and use a faster shutter speed. And if you are pushing just for effect, there isn't much at 800 in my experience.

 

[rich815]

Assuming you want to push but not for the purpose of radical high-contrast and high-grain push I'd recommend you try Diafine. Shot at 1600 it almost looks like Tri-X without a push.

Some examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/424821610/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/424821653/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/424757955/

 

[erikhaugsby]

For comparison, here is Tri-X at 1600 in Rodinal 1+50:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/majortom/662410978/

 

[alexz]

Assuming you want to push but not for the purpose of radical high-contrast and high-grain push I'd recommend you try Diafine. Shot at 1600 it almost looks like Tri-X without a push.

Some examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/424821610/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/424821653/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rich8155/424757955/

Are they in Rodinal or Diafine ? The images heading tells Rodinal..

 

[erikhaugsby]

40oz, do you live in the cities or were you just by the St.A bridge on a trip?

 

[alexz]

OK, thanks.
In fact, in color and in my SLR days I pushed quite a bit when shooting rock stage performance, mostly Fuji Press 800 to 1600, then just noted the lab to push it one stop.

So, what does mean pushing development-wise ?

 

[rogue_designer]

HC-110 at 1:100 - semi-stand development to control contrast and grain a bit.

so, roughly 50 minutes for 1600, agitate 3 inversions every 5 minutes - ish.

If I'm worried about shadow detail, I meter for 800-1250, but process for 1600. The results are very nice. This is my standard walk around combo (at 800 or so, with a yellow filter).

 

[40oz]

40oz, do you live in the cities or were you just by the St.A bridge on a trip?

I live near 26th and So. Lyndale in Minneapolis.

 

[rich815]

Are they in Rodinal or Diafine ? The images heading tells Rodinal..

My screw up! For some reason those photos showed up in a Flickr search of "Diafine" of my photos....sorry.

 

[40oz]

So, what does mean pushing development-wise ?

All "pushing" really means is leaving the film in the develper longer.

Each film has a development time that gives the best results at a given exposure in a given developer. So Tri-X shot at 400 gives the "best" results somewhere around 9.75 minutes in D76 diluted 1+1 at 68* F. If you expose the film as if it were a 1600 ISO film, you need to develop it longer, in this case for 13.25 minutes or so, to get the best results. This is called pushing.

IMHO, a person shoots a film at whatever exposure, but until they develop it, it isn't under-exposed or over-exposed, merely exposed. People use the term "exposure index" (EI) to describe how it was exposed. So using Tri-X at box speed means you exposed a 400 ISO film at 400 EI. For instance, on a sunny day at f/16 and a shutter of 1/500. If you shoot Tri-X at 1600 EI (sunny day, f/16, 1/2000 shutter), you need to "push it" using an appropriate development time, or every shot will come out "under-exposed" after development. When you tell the lab to push your color film one stop, they are just compensating with longer development time so your pictures turn out.

If you shoot Tri-X at 200 EI, you could reduce development time. This would be called "pulling," strangely enough 🙂

In general, negative films don't require pushing or pulling for one stop over or under. But it depends on the scene and personal preference. If you are frequently shooting a given film at a speed other than the box speed, you might as well work out the ideal time for your exposure.

 

[P C Headland]

Sounds like a job for Diafine!

I shoot TriX (120) at EI 1000 when developing in Diafine. In reality you get good results a stop or more either side. It's a great combination if you have no meter... Anyway, at EI1000 I get good shadow detail, little grain and nice tones. It doesn't look pushed at all.

This set was all taken at EI1000 using my Iskra.

 

[murrayatuptown]

Never mine, I just found who Merciful is.
That kitten shot is especially nice.

I forgot all about pushing.

This has me thinking (out side the RF box)...if 400(or 320?) can get to 12800, then maybe there's hope for people who experiment with paper negatives and graphic arts film and xray film etc...the last three tending to be terribly slow (ISO 3 +/- a stop perhaps...

Thanks