Puts on the Zeiss ikon

[doubs43]

Heck, I even use a lowly Ultron made by Cosina with my Leica before that! 😉

Heretic!! 😀

Walker

 

[back alley]

Though entirely unintentional, Erwin's babbles do have their merits and teach a good lesson: if you worship a brand hard enough and long enough, it will become an absurd fanaticism.

that's the old part.
i find it amazing that just about every time someone posts about puts we have a small war here.
he ain't worth it in my books.
joe

 

[Sonnar Brian]

> those who think he is not as opinionated as Puts please raise their hands.

I never have any strong opinions, and even if I did.... I would never think of expressing them...

At least about cameras. I like most all of them. Even the Prominent.

 

[Frank Granovski]

I'm keeping my hands in my pockets for this one. Thanks. 🙄

 

[yossarian]

I enjoy Erwin. He reminds me of Pauline Kael who was the New Yorker film critic for
many years. Her rants ran the gamut from plausible to preposterous (she said "Last
Tango In Paris" would "change the face of film as art". Uh-huh.)

But she was just knowledgeable enough that she couldn't be dismissed, and she acquired a cult of "Paulettes" who were the true believers.

I guess I've just figured out how to interpret his florid style and pick the substance
out of it.

He writes better than Tom Clancy...

 

[Honu-Hugger]

i think you all give this man way too much power.

don't agree with him?
move on silently and don't let him have his impact.

mho

Or have fun with him -- he certainly sets himself up for ridicule 😀. Like any public figure he's fair game for lampooning.

 

[Honu-Hugger]

> those who think he is not as opinionated as Puts please raise their hands.

I never have any strong opinions, and even if I did.... I would never think of expressing them...

At least about cameras. I like most all of them. Even the Prominent.

Brian,
I'm with you on this one -- I am fascinated by almost every camera, even the "failed" designs. It is interesting to see what the design intent was and in some cases to try to adapt and embrace it (Rollei 35's for instance 🙂). I just plain like cameras...

 

[Kevin]

Perhaps Puts writes his texts in Dutch first and then translates them word-for-word? Those strange phrases he uses could be normal in his native language and thus he might not have understood yet that they sound foolish in english.

The same thing could happen to a native German speaker whose english skills are extremely weak. This is a famous conversation between two german travellers in an airplane flying to the UK:

"Honey, how much watch is it?"
"It's four watch."
"Such much?!"

Puts' grotesque spelling mistakes in the past suggest that a native speaker did not look those texts over before publication. Maybe now he is using a spell-checker but has not yet gotten around to having a professional translator remove the idiosyncratic phrases which do not sound right in english (in this particular context).

If he is doing this on purpose, however, then the others are right. Bad publicity is good for him and you are feeding his undeserved power by paying attention to him. Either send him an email and ask him to stop writing foolishly or ignore him completely.

Posting his poorly-translated texts on this forum, however, and then talking about them and the author is a complete waste of mental energy and time.

 

[Mazurka]

Posting his poorly-translated texts on this forum, however, and then talking about them and the author is a complete waste of mental energy and time.

First, we don't know whether he merely translates from Dutch or writes directly in English - I would think it's the latter. After all, he's been writing his stuff for years. And believe me, word-for-word translations actually take longer to do - basically you write the same thing twice - unless you use translation software with their even funnier renditions. 😛

Second, as others and I have pointed out, his absurdities are not limited to poor choice of words and badly constructed phrases (which are forgiveable for someone writing in a foreign language.) They include logical contradictions even within the same page. His multiple standards on non-Leica brands are also infamous.

I agree that you should ignore him if you don't find him interesting. To the rest of us, Puts is just like the Comedy Network - with their apt slogan "It's Time Well Wasted." 😀

 

[Huck Finn]

I agree with Mazurka. It's important to note that Erwin is not just another guy with a website. He is a published author who writes professionally about Leica equipment & other related equipment. He sells books & they are published in English, so he is either familiar enough with English to be facile in it or he has the resources to have it properly translated. And I say this as someone who likes much of what he writes & who has bought his books.

I don't subscribe to name calling or to ridiculing him or anyone else for the sake of getting a cheap laugh. But his writings are subject to criticism like anyone else's.

Huck

 

[Kevin]

I had never heard about Puts until someone posted a thread about his writings a few months back. Agreed, there are many logical contradictions to be found in his texts if you pay some attention.

Sometimes using translation software and cleaning up the obvious wrong bits is faster. I would bet he uses a combination of both.

I would also dare to say that sometimes it is important to read the ramblings of a fool to feel more confident about one's own ability to articulate and reason.

 

[Frank Granovski]

I guess through ownership of every Teutonic and non-Teutonic M qualifies him to exercise Putsisms (or Seussisms); and he be the man. 🙂

 

[pvdhaar]

Perhaps Puts writes his texts in Dutch first and then translates them word-for-word? Those strange phrases he uses could be normal in his native language and thus he might not have understood yet that they sound foolish in english.

I think Erwin falls into a trap that most Dutch do. It's not a limited vocabulary that is the problem. It's the abundance of multiple subordinate clauses in his sentences. That is, sentences built up of smaller sentences separated by commas.

Liberal use of the 'bijzin' is natural to the Dutch. It's less appropriate in English, where it's mostly limited to one clause. Many Dutch would consider him eloquent, well able to construct a valid reasoning, and wouldn't notice anything odd in his writings. As for the rest of the world.... 'It is me what!' 😉

 

[Mazurka]

I would also dare to say that sometimes it is important to read the ramblings of a fool to feel more confident about one's own ability to articulate and reason.

Very well said, Kevin! I could use it as a nice quote! 😀

Liberal use of the 'bijzin' is natural to the Dutch. It's less appropriate in English, where it's mostly limited to one clause. Many Dutch would consider him eloquent, well able to construct a valid reasoning, and wouldn't notice anything odd in his writings. As for the rest of the world.... 'It is me what!'

Well Peter, you don't sound pompous to me even though you're Dutch. 😉

 

[RJBender]

Does anyone remember that Slim Gaillard song from the 1950's? People have sung it using the word putzy instead of putty. It's a very common mistake.

Cement mixer, putty putty
Cement mixer, putty putty
Cement mixer, putty putty
Cement mixer, putty putty
Cement mixer, putty putty
A puddle o’ vooty, a puddle o’ gooty,
A puddle o’ scooby, a puddle o’ veet concrete.
First you get some gravel, pour it on the vout
To mix a mess o’ mortar
You add cement and water
See the mellow roony
Come out slurp slurp slurp.

http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/c/cementmixerputtyputty.shtml


R.J.

 

[Trius]

Seems this thread has interminable subordinate clauses... 🙄 😉

 

[Kevin]

Very well said, Kevin! I could use it as a nice quote! 😀

Of course, I gave up all copyright by posting to this forum 😀

 

[ZeissFan]

[I AM GOING TO EDIT THIS A THIRD TIME -- make it less "mean"]

I have no issue with the author, only his critique. His conclusions are not based on hard evidence, and he falls into the typical trap of using a feature-for-feature pass-or-fail comparison with Leica.

Expounding further, his conclusion regarding the body feeling "less solidly built" is based on weight, rather than actual operation -- which he acknowledges.

And to conclude that the Zeiss Ikon shutter will be less durable than the Leica's shutter is mystifying. How does he know how durable the shutter will be?

Overall, I am not impressed with the review or the approach that the writer has taken. A potential buyer would take very little from the review that would provide any assistance other than "it isn't as good as a Leica."

 

[Uncle Bill]

Having not met Erwin Puts I am going to reserve judgement, now I have been to his site on occasion, and having read his review of the Zeiss Ikon, he could have written it better. English is not Erwin's first language, its one thing to speak it but something else to write, especially you have a lot of technical information. Having not played with a Zeiss Ikon I will not dispute his findings at the moment, if I do win one with the photo contest, I will be doing a review of my own. Safe to say english is the linuga franca of this forum, and for the majority of us its our mother tongue. Bear in mind if I am going to try to communicate in my vastly limited french, english grammer will come through. Writing for the web is a skill, something I am currently learning, I take Erwin is doing this on his own time cut him some slack on the delivery and instead of doing what amounts to a flame, how about a counter review on the Zeiss Ikon.

Bill

 

[bobofish]

Kevin,
If every educated person gets to create three or four classic lines, turns of wit or intelligent riposte, with that "ramblings of a fool..." comment you've certainly hit one of your classics for your whole life.

The bad news is that it may all be downhill from there... 😛