thegman
Veteran
I know that the Alpa is scale focus, but also that you can use ground glass if you like? This might be good for me, as I get exact framing on a tripod, but a small camera to carry around. But it's academic really, as they are waaay out of my price range.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Graflex XL? I have one and like it very well. Awkward shaped, but very usable.
Bear in mind too that the longest lens normally used with an Alpa is the 58/5.6 Apo-Grandagon.
Cheers,
R.
Bear in mind too that the longest lens normally used with an Alpa is the 58/5.6 Apo-Grandagon.
Cheers,
R.
Matus
Well-known
I am not going to talk about Mamiya 6 (which I have) as you have experience with Mamiya 7, but did you have a look at the Fuji GW690 and GSW690? Both are fixed lens rangefinders with very good optics. Could be in interesting solution for landscape. The GW was also available in 680 and 670 versions.
Should you be interested in the ground glass focusing, than there are some 6x12 out there which accept LF lenses - like DAYI, GAOERSI or similar (you need a dedicated helical mount for each). You can also scale focus or course. These are of course bigger than Mamiya 6/7 or Bessa III.
You did not really mentioned the purpose of the camera, so it is not easy to make a specific recommendation.
Should you be interested in the ground glass focusing, than there are some 6x12 out there which accept LF lenses - like DAYI, GAOERSI or similar (you need a dedicated helical mount for each). You can also scale focus or course. These are of course bigger than Mamiya 6/7 or Bessa III.
You did not really mentioned the purpose of the camera, so it is not easy to make a specific recommendation.
thegman
Veteran
Roger, I think 58mm would be OK for me, as I would think it's similar to a 28mm or a little wider on 35mm. It's the price that is the issue with Alpa, if I could get set up for under £1000, then I think that would be my choice.
The Graflex XL does look a bit odd, but otherwise interesting, I'll check it out.
Thanks
Garry
raid
Dad Photographer
Graflex XLSW
Graflex XLSW
I like using my relatively small Graflex XLSW with its 47mm lens. It has a very sharp lens, and it has a fixed lens. It allows me to use 6x6, 6x7 and 6x8 backs. The lens is tiny, and this keeps the camera "light". Hand-held shots are very easily done. A more expensive camera is the Brooks Veriwide. It is similar, but may be refined.
I would consider a Mamiya 6 too. I have never used one, but from what I have read about them, these are fine cameras with excellent lenses. You have the 7.
The Rolleiflex TLR 6x6 camera may require acquired taste for square format, but if this is OK with you, then it is also an excellent choice.
The Fuji RF MF cameras are excellent. I have the old style G690BL with a 100mm AE lens. I love it.
I also like using the Mamiya 645. I use with it Zeiss lenses via an adapter. The camera is not heavy, and the lenses are excellent. Such cameras are quite inexpensive and readily available.
Graflex XLSW
I like using my relatively small Graflex XLSW with its 47mm lens. It has a very sharp lens, and it has a fixed lens. It allows me to use 6x6, 6x7 and 6x8 backs. The lens is tiny, and this keeps the camera "light". Hand-held shots are very easily done. A more expensive camera is the Brooks Veriwide. It is similar, but may be refined.
I would consider a Mamiya 6 too. I have never used one, but from what I have read about them, these are fine cameras with excellent lenses. You have the 7.
The Rolleiflex TLR 6x6 camera may require acquired taste for square format, but if this is OK with you, then it is also an excellent choice.
The Fuji RF MF cameras are excellent. I have the old style G690BL with a 100mm AE lens. I love it.
I also like using the Mamiya 645. I use with it Zeiss lenses via an adapter. The camera is not heavy, and the lenses are excellent. Such cameras are quite inexpensive and readily available.
thegman
Veteran
Hi Raid,
I really like the square format of the Rollieflex, but not so much how it worked. Waist level finders don't suit me when handheld, I much prefer a camera I can raise to my eye level.
All the best
Garry
I really like the square format of the Rollieflex, but not so much how it worked. Waist level finders don't suit me when handheld, I much prefer a camera I can raise to my eye level.
All the best
Garry
Maybe consider compromising on portrait orientation and check out the various Fuji GA645 models. Small, light, inexpensive, great lenses...
Jamie123
Veteran
If you like the square format, don't mind scale focusing and you like wide, how about a Hasselblad SWC? You can get ground glass adapters for them, too.
Rogier
Rogier Willems
My favorite is Holga followed by a Yashica 124 G
MaxElmar
Well-known
If the Mamiya 7 is in your price range and you sold it in an ill-considered "crime of passion" for the Hassy, you should probably just get another one.
If you are old electronics-adverse, as I am, consider a Koni Omega. I haven't mentioned it on this forum (this week) just how much I love my Kodak Medalist. Although it has a reputation as a beast, it seems considerably smaller and lighter than the KO! No interchangeable lenses, though. But you get outstanding full 6x9 negs...
If you are old electronics-adverse, as I am, consider a Koni Omega. I haven't mentioned it on this forum (this week) just how much I love my Kodak Medalist. Although it has a reputation as a beast, it seems considerably smaller and lighter than the KO! No interchangeable lenses, though. But you get outstanding full 6x9 negs...
thegman
Veteran
Hasselblad SWC looks good, maybe a touch pricey. I think if I was going into that price bracket, then a used Bessa III or GF670 would be ideal, or indeed another Mamiya.
I guess the Alpa is what I *want*, but even selling the Hasselblad and Rolleiflex would not get me anywhere near that price bracket.
I guess the Alpa is what I *want*, but even selling the Hasselblad and Rolleiflex would not get me anywhere near that price bracket.
raid
Dad Photographer
Hi Gary,
The Rollei allows you to push down the magnifying glass and then you can look through at eye level. It works fine that way too. The prism is also an option, if you want always to use the Rollei at eye level.
thegman
Veteran
Raid, Yes, I'm actually selling my Rolleiflex now, I know you can sort of use it at eye level, but you still need to focus with the top down finder or prism. I wanted to like the Rolleiflex, but I just don't get along with it.
Garry
Garry
Jamie123
Veteran
I think you can find an SWC in your price range depending on what model you go for. Some of the older ones are quite affordable.
If you want an Alpa, maybe you should try finding a Fotoman of some sort?
thegman
Veteran
I have checked out Fotoman, pretty nice, but hard to come by in the UK. If they are about the same size as an Alpa, and you can focus with ground glass, then we may have a winner.
kuzano
Veteran
Some thoughts on your post...
Some thoughts on your post...
Re: 645 and portrait vs landscape. You can have your cake and eat it!
First, the criteria that forces portrait vs. landscape on 645 is whether the camera is rangefinder (horizontal transport) or SLR (usually vertical transport)
645 has to be transported vertically to be a landscape mode format. If 120/220 film is transported horizontally, then frame opening can only be portrait.
On one hand, my favorite SLR is the Bronica ETRSi with interchangeable backs, prisms and lenses, for the following reasons:
1) smallest SLR for a system camera, = lightest and very durable.
2) great glass. Equivalent to the best.
3) least cost because of an abundance of supply on the internet
4) mid roll film change AND midroll lens change
5) A panoramic 35mm back available (pops up occasionally and 24X56)
6) Good metering .. the type III prism, Type II decent also
7) landscape on 645 backs and the 35mm panorama back
8) a back with a side grip, thumb windon, two backs and a couple of lenses, considerably lighter than any of the larger format MF cameras
That was my 645 choice until I started using the 645 rangefinders. However frustrated by the portrait format, I finally came to a conclusion. My final 645 choice for all it's finer functions was the Fuji GA645Zi. A superb camera, with:
1) Great autofocus
2) sharp lens
3) zoom from 55mm to 90mm
4) excellent metering
5) quiet on both film transport and shutter sound -SO quiet
6) Reliable, I had about 5 of them, and one was still going strong at 34,000 plus actuations
7) manual override.
Now, how did I deal with the "portrait" mode problem. I rigged up a hardwood "vertical" grip, much the same as the vertical grips used on DSLR cameras. I fitted it with a short cable release as the GA645Zi has a cable release socket. The grip was not obtrusive as it did not have to be big enough for batteries as a DSLR.
It made the Fuji GA645Zi, my near perfect 645 camera, used in a landscape fashion. The automation of the GA645Zi is probably the best of any 645 camera's I have ever experienced. I would still have one if I hadn't moved to larger format (6X9) which in MF is typically landscape. Also doing almost exclusively MF and LF on film.
My choice, bar none, is the Fuji Rangefinder cameras in 6X9. I don't have to list all the attributes outside of it not being battery dependent. The fuji's in good condition match all the qualities of other MF cameras.
However the reason I have never purchased a Mamiya 6 or 7 (I shot tons of Mamiya Press models and regard their lenses highly) is due to cost. Mamiya's, particulary 7II's, are highly overpriced in my book.
I can buy two complete fixed lens cameras, one Fuji GSW690III (65mm) and one Fuji GW690III (90mm), for the price on one Mamiya 7II body and two lenses and have change left over. The two Fuji's in the bag will weigh about the same as a Mamiya and two lenses (bit more, but no lens change). Plus I have a 9cm negative instead of the smaller 6X6 or 6X7.
I like to take two images with the GW690 and stitch them together for anything from 6X12 to 6X17. No $3000 panoramic camera.
Lastly, I can buy the older model Fuji's for much less, dramatically widening the cost point between the Mamiya and the Fuji solution.
So, I'm not saying I find any fault with the Mamiya choice. I'm just outlining why I personally choose the Fuji MF option.
And for those people who say a Mamiya lens can outshoot a Fuji EBC lens.... Well, where would you like to meet and have a shootout.
Some thoughts on your post...
Re: 645 and portrait vs landscape. You can have your cake and eat it!
First, the criteria that forces portrait vs. landscape on 645 is whether the camera is rangefinder (horizontal transport) or SLR (usually vertical transport)
645 has to be transported vertically to be a landscape mode format. If 120/220 film is transported horizontally, then frame opening can only be portrait.
On one hand, my favorite SLR is the Bronica ETRSi with interchangeable backs, prisms and lenses, for the following reasons:
1) smallest SLR for a system camera, = lightest and very durable.
2) great glass. Equivalent to the best.
3) least cost because of an abundance of supply on the internet
4) mid roll film change AND midroll lens change
5) A panoramic 35mm back available (pops up occasionally and 24X56)
6) Good metering .. the type III prism, Type II decent also
7) landscape on 645 backs and the 35mm panorama back
8) a back with a side grip, thumb windon, two backs and a couple of lenses, considerably lighter than any of the larger format MF cameras
That was my 645 choice until I started using the 645 rangefinders. However frustrated by the portrait format, I finally came to a conclusion. My final 645 choice for all it's finer functions was the Fuji GA645Zi. A superb camera, with:
1) Great autofocus
2) sharp lens
3) zoom from 55mm to 90mm
4) excellent metering
5) quiet on both film transport and shutter sound -SO quiet
6) Reliable, I had about 5 of them, and one was still going strong at 34,000 plus actuations
7) manual override.
Now, how did I deal with the "portrait" mode problem. I rigged up a hardwood "vertical" grip, much the same as the vertical grips used on DSLR cameras. I fitted it with a short cable release as the GA645Zi has a cable release socket. The grip was not obtrusive as it did not have to be big enough for batteries as a DSLR.
It made the Fuji GA645Zi, my near perfect 645 camera, used in a landscape fashion. The automation of the GA645Zi is probably the best of any 645 camera's I have ever experienced. I would still have one if I hadn't moved to larger format (6X9) which in MF is typically landscape. Also doing almost exclusively MF and LF on film.
My choice, bar none, is the Fuji Rangefinder cameras in 6X9. I don't have to list all the attributes outside of it not being battery dependent. The fuji's in good condition match all the qualities of other MF cameras.
However the reason I have never purchased a Mamiya 6 or 7 (I shot tons of Mamiya Press models and regard their lenses highly) is due to cost. Mamiya's, particulary 7II's, are highly overpriced in my book.
I can buy two complete fixed lens cameras, one Fuji GSW690III (65mm) and one Fuji GW690III (90mm), for the price on one Mamiya 7II body and two lenses and have change left over. The two Fuji's in the bag will weigh about the same as a Mamiya and two lenses (bit more, but no lens change). Plus I have a 9cm negative instead of the smaller 6X6 or 6X7.
I like to take two images with the GW690 and stitch them together for anything from 6X12 to 6X17. No $3000 panoramic camera.
Lastly, I can buy the older model Fuji's for much less, dramatically widening the cost point between the Mamiya and the Fuji solution.
So, I'm not saying I find any fault with the Mamiya choice. I'm just outlining why I personally choose the Fuji MF option.
And for those people who say a Mamiya lens can outshoot a Fuji EBC lens.... Well, where would you like to meet and have a shootout.
Well said...I followed the same path and ended up with a GA645zi. I think it's fantastic and as you say considerably less than a Mamiya 6 or 7 (I've owned a 6 previously.)
It just fit all the criteria I had. Yeah, the lens could be faster but I'm using it for landscapes so I don't really need it to be faster. It's very well built, and light, so I have no excuse not to carry it...ergonomically it fits the hand perfectly.
And the price didn't break the bank. I got an essentially perfect one here from an RFFer. Portrait orientation in my case is solved my turning the camera 90 degrees.
It just fit all the criteria I had. Yeah, the lens could be faster but I'm using it for landscapes so I don't really need it to be faster. It's very well built, and light, so I have no excuse not to carry it...ergonomically it fits the hand perfectly.
And the price didn't break the bank. I got an essentially perfect one here from an RFFer. Portrait orientation in my case is solved my turning the camera 90 degrees.
oftheherd
Veteran
The Mamiya Universal/Super Press seldom gets mention. It's not for everyone, but always worthy of consideration.
