Question about 25mm f4

[thompsonks]

I've acquired what seems to be a rather nice 25mm f4 that came with an original viewfinder and even the bayonet-style lens cap. It doesn't appear to have had much use. The case shows wear but not the lens, as if someone carried it around a lot but didn't use it. It has an ordinary amount of dust inside but no apparent optical problems.

One thing, however, concerns me: when most lenses are set to widest aperture, the blades move out to the very edge of the lens or can't even be seen. But with this lens I can see that the blades are visible and are shut down a bit at f4.

The f-stop lever has solid detents and doesn't turn beyond f4 or f22. It moves from f4 to f22 with solid clicks, so the lever positions are OK. I just wonder if the aperture blades should be closed a bit at f4.

I can send it back if this is a defect, so please let me know if yours looks like this too.

Kirk

(PS: This is just an experiment for me – I used a 24mm Nikkor on an F over 30 years ago, but since had settled on 28s as my 'normal wide-angle.' I did, however, own a Canon 24-105 lens at one time, and I did sometimes use it at 24mm.)

(PPS: The viewfinder would be fine for someone who didn't wear glasses, but I can't see to the edges when wearing them. Fortunately I have the use of a 25mm CV finder, which is OK with glasses.)

 

[jonmanjiro]

That's normal Kirk. The Nikkor-O 2.1cm f4 does that to a certain extent as well.

More importantly, is the shape formed by the aperture blades at f4 symmetrical?

P.S. The W-Nikkor 2.5cm f4 is an incredible vignetting machine. This shot was taken f8 and a half!


Ferris wheel - W-Nikkor.C 2.5cm 1:4 by jonmanjiro, on Flickr

 

[jonmanjiro]

Here's a photo of my 25mm f4 set to f4. Can clearly see the aperture blades.


Nikon SP 2005 & W-Nikkor 2.5cm 1:4 by jonmanjiro, on Flickr

 

[thompsonks]

Thanks, Jon – so glad to hear and see that! Mine looks the same, though on a less beautiful body. It's no. 404500 – made a bit later, if they're consecutive. (Which leads to the impolite question, What might such lenses be worth?)

I was forewarned about vignetting, but I see it can go over-the-top. I'll try it this weekend and will keep aperture as small as possible. It should provide a nice opportunity for the (un)vignetting lens correction in Photoshop. I enjoy a bit of v'ing, but not that much.

PS, Yes, aperture blades are symmetrical.

 

[Tom A]

The Nikkor 25f4 is a very god lens - small and with a wonderful tonal rendition. I like the strong vignetting as it tends to "center" the subject. Of course, today you can "de-vignette" in Light Room or Photoshop - but that kind of misses the point.
You have to be a bit careful with setting the aperture - the blades are very thin so dont 'slam" the aperture level to hrad - just a gentle nudge.
Center sharpness is very good - even at f4.
I have never shot color with mine - but I like it in black/white - a trip back to the 60's - particualrly with some 400 iso bl/w film.
Nikon S4, Nikkor 25mm f4.0. Neopan 400 in Pyrocat HD.

 

[thompsonks]

Yes, Tom, the vignetting adds to that one! Adds to the sense of isolation in deep space.

It's especially those deep blue skies in color, as in the ferris wheel, where this & other WA lenses can go over-the-top. I have 25 Skopar and 28 Ultron V1 that darken and hypersaturate blue skies quite a bit too. 28 Summicron vignettes less – but I don't plan to take it to the beach.

 

[PMCC]

Tokyo Leica photojourno James Whitlow Delano intentionally vignettes in the darkroom for the purpose of dramatically highlighting the central subject.

 

[dmc]

Here's a photo of my 25mm f4 set to f4. Can clearly see the aperture blades.


Nikon SP 2005 & W-Nikkor 2.5cm 1:4 by jonmanjiro, on Flickr

What a beautiful rig. I am just stunned! Thanks for sharing.

 

[jonmanjiro]

(Which leads to the impolite question, What might such lenses be worth?)

I paid about $2,000 a few years ago for a full set (lens, hood, caps, finder, leather case, UV filter) in excellent condition. Prices seem to have crept down a bit since then.

Oh and that vignetting example is the best (worst?) one I've got. All the factors (Velvia film, lighting etc.) lined up that day to enhance the effect. The vignetting normally isn't that pronounced as Tom's example shows.

What a beautiful rig. I am just stunned! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks 🙂

 

[thompsonks]

Re: JW Delano,

Hi, Peter – It looks to me like he also diffuses during printing so that the highlights & shadows don't stay within their boundaries. Long ago that was done with layers of 'retired' silk stockings.

Rollo (I forget his real name ), who posts fine work on LUF and Flickr, also uses a lot of creative vignetting.

Kirk

PS, I just looked for a spare 2.5cm f4 bayonet lens cap and saw one advertised on theBay at $325!

 

[Jan Van Laethem]

It's no. 404500 – made a bit later, if they're consecutive. (...) Yes, aperture blades are symmetrical.

Gorgeous picture of the black version in Jonmanjiro's shot. Mine is serial number 403120 and is a chrome version. I suppose we see the normal intermixing of black and chrome as far as serial numbers are concerned, as seen with other Nikon products.

Symmetrical blades here also, and yes, they don't open completely, although I never noticed it until today. I normally have my lens at f/11 and prefocused with the depth-of-field scale, so there's no need to focus as long as the light is good. That way it's a great set-up for hip shots too.

Thanks Tom for pointing out the thin blades.

I wonder how much light we would have gained if Nikon had designed the aperture blades to open up completely, but I guess it would hardly be more than half a stop anyway.

 

[rbsinto]

The Nikkor 25f4 is a very god lens - small and with a wonderful tonal rendition. I like the strong vignetting as it tends to "center" the subject. Of course, today you can "de-vignette" in Light Room or Photoshop - but that kind of misses the point.
You have to be a bit careful with setting the aperture - the blades are very thin so dont 'slam" the aperture level to hrad - just a gentle nudge.
Center sharpness is very good - even at f4.
I have never shot color with mine - but I like it in black/white - a trip back to the 60's - particualrly with some 400 iso bl/w film.
Nikon S4, Nikkor 25mm f4.0. Neopan 400 in Pyrocat HD.

Vertical lines on the photo.
Dirt on the opening around the shutter or guide rails or on the pressure plate?

 

[thompsonks]

Just a scratch on the film?

I've had a chance to use the lens a bit and compare it to CV25. I'm persuaded it was and is an outstanding WA for BW, because a certain amount of vignetting usually adds to a BW shot, and especially a WA one where most of the important 'action' is near the center.

In color, the vignetting of blue skies in sunlight is extreme and is more than I can live with. It's better in color when the lighting is flatter. And its color rendering is fully acceptable.

Sometime soon I'll try to post both color and BW versions, uncorrected and corrected.

On camera, it's a cute thing to look at – the first pancake lens. Not sure, however, that I'll keep either 25; I'm most comfortable not going wider than 28.

Kirk

 

[rbsinto]

Just a scratch on the film?

I've had a chance to use the lens a bit and compare it to CV25. I'm persuaded it was and is an outstanding WA for BW, because a certain amount of vignetting usually adds to a BW shot, and especially a WA one where most of the important 'action' is near the center.

In color, the vignetting of blue skies in sunlight is extreme and is more than I can live with. It's better in color when the lighting is flatter. And its color rendering is fully acceptable.

Sometime soon I'll try to post both color and BW versions, uncorrected and corrected.

On camera, it's a cute thing to look at – the first pancake lens. Not sure, however, that I'll keep either 25; I'm most comfortable not going wider than 28.

Kirk

Of course.
Possibly caused by crud on the film guide rails, or pressure plate or around the opening for the shutter, that is scratching the film as it is advanced.

 

[Range-rover]

I have the Voigtlander 25mmf4 and it's a great lens, but if
I had a chance to get a Nikkor I would.

Range

 

[Vickko]

I have had two of these lenses.

Yes, very very thin aperture blades, and so thin that getting oil on these is almost fatal.
I had the pleasure of repairing one where the blade had torn, due to being stuck with oil and then the aperture moved.

I do like how compact it is on a camera though.

I should shoot mine more.

 

[PMCC]

Re: JW Delano,

Hi, Peter – It looks to me like he also diffuses during printing so that the highlights & shadows don't stay within their boundaries. Long ago that was done with layers of 'retired' silk stockings.

Rollo (I forget his real name ), who posts fine work on LUF and Flickr, also uses a lot of creative vignetting.

Kirk

PS, I just looked for a spare 2.5cm f4 bayonet lens cap and saw one advertised on theBay at $325!

Kirk,

James Whitlow Delano definitely has a bunch of creative darkroom techniques and keeps the specifics close to his vest -- I don't know the details, only that the results are distinctive. He's a very good printer. We met on the road in Xinjiang, where he was carrying just an M2 and 35/2.8 Summaron -- his only kit at the time. He's based in Tokyo and some the work he was doing when I met him appears in his excellent monograph, Empire: Impressions of China. He recently told me he's overdue to return to China for another look.

Peter.