Question about Summicron R lenses

[mllanos1111]

I'm looking to purchase a 50 Summicron R. I see all kinds of version out there.
Are there ones to look for and ones to stay away from?

 

[jschrader]

it appears there are only two versions (optically).

Check out here

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/R_Lenses_x_Ordinal

 

[mfogiel]

Erwin Puts wrote on the difference between versions extensively.
In short - 1st version is optimized for wide open and is medium contrast, very nice in B&W, with pleasant bokeh, I like it for portraits:

20136124 by mfogiel, on Flickr
The 2nd version has a sliding hood, is somewhat bigger, and is reputed sharper at middle apertures, and overall more digital friendly.

 

[burancap]

Beyond the optics -what will you be using it on?

The cam arrangements can cause problems with some cameras -even the native R mounts from Leica themselves.

 

[mllanos1111]

Picking up a Leicaflex SL2, will mostly be shooting B&W

 

[burancap]

Picking up a Leicaflex SL2, will mostly be shooting B&W

Then I would look for a 2 cam. A 3 cam (not 3rd cam) will also work.

Here is great article I like to reference when dealing with R bodies and lenses: http://www.kehblog.com/2012/03/leica-r-lenses-understanding-cams.html

 

[burancap]

BTW, the early R 50 is a spectacular lens.

 

[mfogiel]

Be careful. I have a Leicaflex SL2, and the Macro Elmarit 60/2.8 glued to it, because the Summicron 50 (v1) misfocuses on it quite substantially. The lenses I have tested on the SL2 that focus correctly are:
Macro Elmarit 60/2.8 ( a spectacular lens), Summicron 90/2 ( same) and Elmarit 135/2.8 (very good). The misfocusing on SLR's is a little known issue, so unless you seldom shoot wide open and at close distances, consider it seriously.

Macro Elmarit 60


20131506 by mfogiel, on Flickr

 

[Steve M.]

I like the earlier lenses that were made in Germany. Tried the newer Canadian versions and man, they have some ugly bokeh! Way too contrasty too.

 

[35photo]

I've got the version I as well..Its nice has a bit of a "glow" wide open..I really like the way it renders shot lots of B&W with it since it was the lens I used on my first camera I had..Fast forward to today I took the mount off and put on a Nikon mount to use on my D800E its a little tricky to focus on my Nikon but when you nail it WOW! Here are some images in color..


_DSC4320 by Marko Mihailovich, on Flickr


_DSC4315 by Marko Mihailovich, on Flickr


_DSC4324 by Marko Mihailovich, on Flickr

 

[mllanos1111]

Thank you for pointing out misfocusing issue. Those 60mm Macro are twice the price of the 50 Summicron. Is it only the earlier Summicron's that had the issue on it or is it all of them?
The 50 is my favorite size and I like having the extra stop.
Those D800 shots looks great and almost film like.

 

[burancap]

I had never heard of (at least never had) any misfocus issues with my 1 cam 50.

The 60 Elmarit is a lovely lens, but I prefer the 50 for just about everything.

 

[redisburning]

Id recommend the 60 Elmarit over the 50 cron R too. it's a bit slow and a bit long but it has THE best color discrimination in any lens I've ever personally owned (I understand the 100 APO ME is even better). it is a shockingly good lens for 400 dollars (which is what I paid for my copy).

out of the 50 cron Rs, the e55 (version II, optically), is a superior lens. yes it is sharper but more critically it does not suffer from focus shift which the first one does.

 

[Tejasican]

These are all version 1 with BW from an SL and color from an R4:
http://photopriest.com/storage/cache/images/000/026/28450020,large.2x.jpg?1390953905

http://photopriest.com/storage/cache/images/000/008/12370006,large.2x.jpg?1390951648

http://photopriest.com/storage/cache/images/000/023/130412R411,medium_large.2x.jpg?1390953848

I like the lens but I can't speak to the second iteration though, sorry.

 

[burancap]

I find the news about the 50 misfocus very interesting. Like I said, I had never heard of it before. I just went back through my images from the lens and they were all dead on -even wide open.

Which version(s) had the problem? Was it a batch or a hit or miss situation? Or was it only with a particular body -perhaps more of a mirror issue? I'd love some more insight on this.

Regarding the 50/60 debate. I love the character of the 50 and I find it a much more manageable size than the LONG 60. You really can't go wrong with either though.

 

[burancap]

Here is my 1 cam 50 fairly open on a Leicaflex Standard Mk.II with Fuji 200...


LF-2 by burancap, on Flickr


...and stopped down a bit.


LF-8 by burancap, on Flickr

 

[Landshark]

Single cam is for the original Leicaflex......No ttl metering.
two cam for use with the SL and third cam came out with the R3.

So, with an SL2 two cam or "some" three cam work.
There are two cat #'s for three cam lenses. 11215 can be used on ALL Leicaflex and R series cameras.
Cat # 11216 is compatible only with R cameras..

Source for this bit of information is Identifying Leica Lenses/ Ghester Sartorius/1999
Amphoto books.

 

[mfogiel]

A 50mm f 2.0 lens on a 35mm film has an estimated 3.75cm DOF at 1m, say 1.75cm in front and 2 cm at the back of the plane of best focus. I have the specific SL2/Summicron tests in the office, but I remember it was off ( I think backfocus) by at least 3cm, so while you are focusing at 100cm, and your DOF extends from 98,25 to 102cm, in reality your acceptable sharpness will be from 101,25 to 105cm.
You can see the problem as explained in this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137012

 

[burancap]

A 50mm f 2.0 lens on a 35mm film has an estimated 3.75cm DOF at 1m, say 1.75cm in front and 2 cm at the back of the plane of best focus. I have the specific SL2/Summicron tests in the office, but I remember it was off ( I think backfocus) by at least 3cm, so while you are focusing at 100cm, and your DOF extends from 98,25 to 102cm, in reality your acceptable sharpness will be from 101,25 to 105cm.
You can see the problem as explained in this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137012

Thank you for the link and the effort you put into that thread. Do you have any other references to this misfocus problem?

Did you test any other R 50's and on any other bodies? My first though was that there may be nothing wrong with your Summicron at all and that the problem was with the body -at the mirror or the screen.

Please advise, as I am struggling to find anything about this. Of course, you suggested it was little known issue. I would love to read more about it!

Thanks again!

 

[burancap]

...more critically it does not suffer from focus shift which the first one does.

Can you help me with some source material on this focus shift? Maybe point me in the correct direction? I have been searching and I am struggling to find anything definitive on the topic.

Much appreciated!