Question on Kiev shutter behaviour

[Pherdinand]

Hi Forum.

At slow shutter speeds, is the Kiev (model "4" from 1960) shutter supposed to have the two curtains move very slowly? The overall exposure time seems to be right but i was used with focal plane shutters to two quick snaps corresponding to two fast moving shutter curtains, with a buzzing waiting time between them. Including the contax IIIa shutter.
The Kiev however, when fired at say 1/5 s, lets the first curtain go quite slow (slower than at high speeds) and it just disappears when the second curtain starts to move already, also very slow. Slow means that i can see it moving w bare eyes.
There are no other problems, like capping or visible damwge on them, and the shutter times seem to be consistent.

So, is it okay or not? If not what's the reason? How to fix it?
Thanks!
Pherdinand the FSU Curious.

 

[varjag]

It is the same on my 4a sample, and it isn't how it was supposed to work. People say it is casued by a weakened spring and some claim it can be tightened/adjusted. Never tried that though, as I rarely shoot slower than 1/25.

 

[jlw]

Suggestion: Read the Contax II information on Henry Scherer's website before you get the urge to tighten any springs! Overtightening can snap 'em -- which has no visible symptoms, but if that happens you'll never get it right...

I don't own either a Kiev or a Contax right now, but if I remember correctly the curtains DO move a bit more slowly than most cameras when you're on the slow speeds. They shouldn't be sluggish, though -- they should open crisply, not just "flop" open.

 

[Kin Lau]

I have 3 Kiev's, only one has correctly working slow speeds. The other's are _way_ too slow. I have a number of other cameras that don't even have slow speeds, so it's no big deal. I also have plenty of camera's with good working slow speeds as well.

 

[sockeyed]

I was worrying that I sold Pherdiand a total lemon, but it seems that this is a characteristic of old Kievs!

 

[pangkievrange]

Hi Forum.

At slow shutter speeds, is the Kiev (model "4" from 1960) shutter supposed to have the two curtains move very slowly? The overall exposure time seems to be right but i was used with focal plane shutters to two quick snaps corresponding to two fast moving shutter curtains, with a buzzing waiting time between them. Including the contax IIIa shutter.
The Kiev however, when fired at say 1/5 s, lets the first curtain go quite slow (slower than at high speeds) and it just disappears when the second curtain starts to move already, also very slow. Slow means that i can see it moving w bare eyes.
There are no other problems, like capping or visible damwge on them, and the shutter times seem to be consistent.

So, is it okay or not? If not what's the reason? How to fix it?
Thanks!
Pherdinand the FSU Curious.

I will check it for you when I'm at home. At B, the first curtain comes down before the second can travel.

Pangkievrange (who has 23 kieves including kiev 5)

 

[rpinchbeck]

Pherdinand,

On any shutter speed the opening of the first curtain should be fairly quick. Now, if you have selected a slow speed selected the escapements will delay the shutter mechanism for a period of time and then close the second curtain quickly. If the opening or closing of the curtains are slow then there is something either dirty or the spring could be faulty.

Cheers

Russ Pinchbeck

Hi Forum.

At slow shutter speeds, is the Kiev (model "4" from 1960) shutter supposed to have the two curtains move very slowly? The overall exposure time seems to be right but i was used with focal plane shutters to two quick snaps corresponding to two fast moving shutter curtains, with a buzzing waiting time between them. Including the contax IIIa shutter.
The Kiev however, when fired at say 1/5 s, lets the first curtain go quite slow (slower than at high speeds) and it just disappears when the second curtain starts to move already, also very slow. Slow means that i can see it moving w bare eyes.
There are no other problems, like capping or visible damwge on them, and the shutter times seem to be consistent.

So, is it okay or not? If not what's the reason? How to fix it?
Thanks!
Pherdinand the FSU Curious.

 

[Kin Lau]

It's funny, but on the Kiev's, I have exactly the same problem on 2 cameras. 1/50 and faster, the shutter's very zippy.

Slower speeds, even 1/25 the speed of the 1st and 2nd curtain is slow motion. On "B", the 2nd curtain is quite slow.

Pherdinand,

On any shutter speed the opening of the first curtain should be fairly quick. Now, if you have selected a slow speed selected the escapements will delay the shutter mechanism for a period of time and then close the second curtain quickly. If the opening or closing of the curtains are slow then there is something either dirty or the spring could be faulty.

Cheers

Russ Pinchbeck

 

[jdos2]

Part of the reason Contaxes (and Kievs) were so expensive were for the shutter mechanism, adjusting both the gap betwen the shutters, and the speed at which they moved.

Check 1/25 in front of a computer monitor or television. You should get a *blink* of the entire film gate being open. Slower speeds you can compare with other cameras.

Oh. And I have 6 dead Kievs now, one working. It's the nature of the beast. Unfixed Kievs are good for no more than 4 rolls of film. 🙂
(at least in my experience!)

 

[Pherdinand]

🙁
Hmmm.
Thanks for the answers.
Result: After several shutter firings on slow speed, a piece of yellow ribbon appeared next to the shutter.
I removed the back and the film gate to see the shutter curtains.

The problem: One of the shutter ribbons (the left one) is broken in the middle. The tension in the shutter springs is therefore also lost.

Questions:
Anybody has a good source for shutter ribbons? (Other than Henry Scherer's "original silk Contax shutter ribbons", 75$ / yard)
Anybody knows how to re-tension the springs in the bottom roller?
Thanks
Pherdinand

 

[wlewisiii]

Fedka also carries the Kiev strap materials.

William

 

[einolu]

My kiev seems a bit sluggish in the slower speeds too but I have shot a few photos at 1/25 without any problems.

 

[Pherdinand]

Thanks, greyhoundman. One meter? But i only need one piece of fifteen cm 🙁
Thanks, william. Will check fedka too.

 

[taffer]

Pherdi, you can also drop a line to Oleg at www.okvintagecamera.com.

 

[pangkievrange]

I checked several kieves including kiev 3, 4am, and 4. It appeared the first curtain went slower at slow speeds (1/10, 1/5, and 1/2) and opened fully (even for 1/25) before the second curtain came down.

pangkievrange

 

[Pherdinand]

thanks pang.
That's normal i guess - to have it open even at 1/50, since the flash sync should work at 1/50s or below, and that needs a fully open shutter.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Yes, this is a variable-slit-width, variable-speed shutter -- as most FP shutters were when the Contax was designed. It is supposed to run slower at the slow speeds: it is not a fault.

Cheers,

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)