Questions about '58 Nikon S3 RF & Lenses

[furcafe]

Yes, they will all work, why woudn't they? The S3 doesn't have framelines in the VF for all of them, but they will mount & work. The S mount lenses were never around long enough to get really confusing like the Nikon F lenses (w/Ai, Ai-s, various types of AF, etc., as Nikon added new features to their cameras).

Per James24's post, there aren't that many Nikon RF lenses to learn about (even including the modern ones from Cosina Voigtlander & the wide angles for the Zeiss Ikon Contax RF, which will work on Nikon RFs because Nikon "borrowed" the Contax lens mount).

Just do some of your assigned reading & things will become clear! 😉

Are all the Nikon Nikkor RF lenses from that time going to work on my S3? I can't see why they ALL would.

 

[Jesse3Names]

Yes, they will all work, why woudn't they? The S3 doesn't have framelines in the VF for all of them, but they will mount & work. The S mount lenses were never around long enough to get really confusing like the Nikon F lenses (w/Ai, Ai-s, various types of AF, etc., as Nikon added new features to their cameras).

Per James24's post, there aren't that many Nikon RF lenses to learn about (even including the modern ones from Cosina Voigtlander & the wide angles for the Zeiss Ikon Contax RF, which will work on Nikon RFs because Nikon "borrowed" the Contax lens mount).

Just do some of your assigned reading & things will become clear! 😉

I shall clear my head, buy the book, and do my homework. Thanks to a combination of Wikipedia et al., I am now all confused. I thought the S-mount was a very specific, short-lived mount that wasn't compatible with the later F-mount lenses. I will just do as you guys say and come back with far fewer questions in the future!

 

[Range-rover]

Jesse,
Welcome to the Nikon S3 club thats a terrific camera and lenses to boot, I have mine
and love it, I do have a Voigtlander 25mmf4 lens and it's a sweet lens. The focusing
patch is a little lighter than some of the other cameras if it was fix they should of cleaned
it to make it a little better, take it to a window and you will see it better.

Range

 

[furcafe]

It was, that's why you don't have to worry about which S mount (or "Nikon RF mount" or "Nikon rangefinder") lens will fit your S3; they all do. Basically, just ignore the long lenses for the reflex attachment that Phil mentioned & the F mount glass.

I thought the S-mount was a very specific, short-lived mount that wasn't compatible with the later F-mount lenses.

 

[Jesse3Names]

It was, that's why you don't have to worry about which S mount (or "Nikon RF mount" or "Nikon rangefinder") lens will fit your S3; they all do. Basically, just ignore the F mount glass.

Ah, that makes it easy. All but F-mounts! Thanks. Sorry I guess I didn't put 2 and 2 together about the S3 - it's basically a slightly less fancy SP, so any lens that SP shooters use I should be able to use. Just like how the 7D is a slightly less nice DSLR than my 5D II. Lens mounts don't change, it's just features and some small design changes. I'm glad we could clear this up, I was really struggling for a while for no real reason.

 

[Jan Van Laethem]

Ah, that makes it easy. All but F-mounts! Thanks. Sorry I guess I didn't put 2 and 2 together about the S3 - it's basically a slightly less fancy SP, so any lens that SP shooters use I should be able to use. Just like how the 7D is a slightly less nice DSLR than my 5D II. Lens mounts don't change, it's just features and some small design changes. I'm glad we could clear this up, I was really struggling for a while for no real reason.

Just to put things into a historical perspective, and at the risk of symplifying a bit, the Nikon rangefinder cameras were the only Nikon products available just after the second world war, when Nikon started out as a camera manufacturer. Apart from the very early models One (1948) and M (1950), the first mass produced Nikon was the S (1951). Then came the much more user-friendly S2 (1954), the SP (1957) and the S3 with less framelines (1958), and finally the S4 (1959).

Hence all lenses created for the "Nikon camera" as it was advertised throughout the whole rangefinder series, in all its incarnations S - S2 - SP - S3- S4, can be used on any RF camera.

The reflex camera Nikon F was introduced in April 1959 and was available around the same time as the SP and S3. The reflex system proved such a huge success for Nikon that it soon overshadowed the rangefinder sales. The last RF camera Nikon produced was the S4, after which Nikon put a halt to the rangefinder line, approximately mid 1960s. The Nikon F was followed by the F2, the F3 etc and the F Mount was maintained throughout the whole reflex range, including the current DSLRs.

So, although the two systems coincided for a certain time, from 1959 until approximately 1964, the rangefinder system with the S-mount saw the light of day prior to the F mount reflex system and was discontinued when F sales boomed.

Just to be a bit more complete, in the year 2000 Nikon manufactured a reissue of the S3, which is known as the "S3 2000" in its chrome version and the "S3 2002" in its black version. These cameras came with a reissue of the 5cm f/1.4 lens. About 8,000 of these were made and were really a marketing and technological showcase for Nikon.

Then Nikon surprised us again in 2005 with a reissue of the SP, known as the SP2005, which had a limited production run of 2,500 cameras. It came with a reissue of the 3.5cm f/1.8 lens.

You can read a bit more on the RF and F cameras here :

S

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc09s-e/index.htm

S2

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc08s2-e/index.htm

SP/S3/S4

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc07sp-e/index.htm

F

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/legendary/rhnc05f-e/index.htm

 

[Jan Van Laethem]

Found a link to an instruction manual for the S3 :

http://bmwdean.com/nikon-s3-manual.htm

 

[Jesse3Names]

Found a link to an instruction manual for the S3 : http://bmwdean.com/nikon-s3-manual.htm

Jan,

Thanks very much for that history lesson. It makes a lot more sense when you lay it out like that. I still don't know why I was so confused about lenses in the first place. I guess I thought the S3 was its own thing and maybe the SP took F lenses - again, don't ask why I thought this, even I don't know what led me to my false conclusions. I'm definitely going to get that Nikon RF history book - it'll be good coffee table reading I'll actually want to read.

I just got the negatives from the roll of 400TX I shot on the S3 back in NC for my friends engagement shoot (mostly digital) and my trip to a friend's house near Lake Toxaway. I don't know if the set of 3x5 prints made with this roll are darker than the negatives are actually exposed, but it appears that I metered to crash the shadows. So it looks like I may have some work to do. But I'm going to have a few slides scanned digitally and see if the detail is there, otherwise I'm pretty mad at myself and have some work to do to improve my RF skill. It's a new ball game, but I absolutely love the challenge.

 

[Jesse3Names]

Is there any reason why certain lenses were made with internal or external bayonet mounts? I can't tell why my 3.5 and 13.5 cm lenses have external flanges while my 5.0 cm lens is nice and clean inside the body? The external lenses don't let me use the infinity lock/wheel on the body to focus, which I don't mind, but am just curious why they did that.

 

[Jan Van Laethem]

I'm definitely going to get that Nikon RF history book - it'll be good coffee table reading I'll actually want to read. (...) I don't know if the set of 3x5 prints made with this roll are darker than the negatives are actually exposed, but it appears that I metered to crash the shadows.

You should definitely get that book. Mind you that it is very addictive reading and you'll soon want other lenses to build up your system. And then another camera. Most of us on the Nikon RF forum walked the same path. 😀

Your metering problems would be identical with any other non-metered camera. Were you using a hand held meter or just relying on another camera with built in meter ?

 

[Jan Van Laethem]

Is there any reason why certain lenses were made with internal or external bayonet mounts? I can't tell why my 3.5 and 13.5 cm lenses have external flanges while my 5.0 cm lens is nice and clean inside the body? The external lenses don't let me use the infinity lock/wheel on the body to focus, which I don't mind, but am just curious why they did that.

The 5cm f/1.4 and f/2 have an internal bayonet, the 5cm f/1.1 exists in both internal and external bayonet mounts. I think that all other lenses, from wide angle (3.5, 2.5, 2.1) to tele (8.5, 10.5 and 13.5) are all external mount lenses. I may forget some here, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

The external bayonet is used to mount longer and heavier lenses where the built-in helicoid would not be strong enough to rotate the lens barrel. Besides, the distance scale on the camera body will be covered by the lens flange and thus not visible.

Personally I only use the focus wheel on top of the camera with the 5cm and the wide angles, anything tele is best focused on the lens barrel.

 

[VinceC]

The built-in focus helicoid for the internal mount lenses is specifically designed to accurately focus 50mm lenses only. Other lenses require a separate helical because their back-and-forth travel would be different. You can see from your 35mm and 135mm lenses that the internal mount engages with the machined fittings on each lens, but that the focusing helicals on the 35mm travel a much shorter distance between infinity and closeest focus.

The Nikon RF mount is based very closely (but not precisely) on the German Contax mount of the early 1930s. The German Contax was the main competitor to early Leicas, and the Contax bayonet lenses allowed for much faster switching of lenses. However, the Nikon and Contax RF mount can be a bit fiddly ... particularly with the 35mm lens, you need to ensure the lens is correctly lined up before snugging it up. For the wide angles, it is possible to misallign the lens and end up jamming it on, with the result that the entire focus mechanism on lens and camera freeze in place.

 

[Jesse3Names]

Your metering problems would be identical with any other non-metered camera. Were you using a hand held meter or just relying on another camera with built in meter ?

I was metering with my 5D II body at a lesser focal length on some photos. I have a Sekonic meter my Mom gave my Dad (who had the S3) in '89 or so, roughly when I was born. So I'll be using that quite a bit and likely my camera body to spot meter. I had the 3.5 and 5.0 cm Nikkor lenses, but only my 16-35/2.8L II for my Canon body. I did the best I could. It was a pretty dramatic scene, I guess. I was shooting a waterfall behind my friend's house so the water is near zone 8-10 and the shadows are around zone 2-3, if you want to put everything on one scale. There wasn't a huge amount of gray beyond the clouds. I need to get them scanned - I think I'll be able to pull more detail out digitally than I can see on this tiny print. I know for a fact these prints were made with one of those giant machines (roll was developed by hand, though), so what do you expect! A handful of them look very nice; at least the ones of my two friends at their engagement shoot on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I guess I was just surprised. I thought that film would be able to handle certain situations better because of the greater latitude on print film, but maybe I'm wrong in some very specific situations. I'll post results when I do get them scanned for opinions.

 

[Jesse3Names]

For the wide angles, it is possible to misallign the lens and end up jamming it on, with the result that the entire focus mechanism on lens and camera freeze in place.

Well... no one wants that to happen. I'll be very careful, thanks!

 

[Tom A]

I have made it a habit to always have the mount/lens at infinity - even with 50mm lenses that do not need it. If you jam a lens on - it is pretty well the end of that lens. It can require a hack saw on the lens barrel to free up!!!! I know of someone who did it with a 35f1.8 - and it had to be cut apart. Not a pretty sight.

 

[Jesse3Names]

In case any of you guys want to see what my camera looks like, I posted it in this same forum: http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2206081

There's a link to a Flickr photo set in there of shots of it!

 

[Jan Van Laethem]

In case any of you guys want to see what my camera looks like, I posted it in this same forum: http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2206081

There's a link to a Flickr photo set in there of shots of it!

Great pics. That case is the best I've seen, it should be great for travel.