Questions about Canon A1

[Fraser]

It's a camera of the new program era, the idea was to get away from manual shooting. It's a bit strange shooting in manual but it makes up for it in AV and TV.
At the time if you wanted a camera to shoot in manual the new f1 was the camera to buy, a professional camera rather than a serious amateurs camera.

 

[sevo]

It's a camera of the new program era, the idea was to get away from manual shooting.

If so, they'd have omitted it, rather than provide a abominably useless one. It rather looks as if they had found no way to combine a regular manual mode with their single numerical four digit LED.

 

[Huss]

It was the first SLR with a numerical LED display. But in manual mode it loses all and any time coupling - the LED display shows the time recommended by the exposure meter, which you have to set on the dial, with no in-finder confirmation as to what you have set or whether it matches the display. The closest to a eye-on-the-finder manual mode you can do is set one time, memorise it, and control the aperture so that the display matches your memory (and hope you do not accidentally move the knob) - but at that, it is on a level with the Examat and other crude 1960 TTL hacks.

Ahh. So it doesn't have a manual mode in a normal usable fashion. Weird.

Hey, sounds like a Minolta CLE! Turn it to manual, all the meter functions turn off.

 

[_goodtimez]

I recently got an A1 with a 50mm 1.4 at a flea market for 5 € !
It was squealing a lot and I solved the issue in just 5mn with a screwdriver and a dab of oil.
I ran a Elitechrome film through it and was amazed by the very nice output.

 

[Dwig]

Ahh. So it doesn't have a manual mode in a normal usable fashion. Weird. ...

It has a perfectly usable manual mode. The issues some have with it is that they don't want a true simple manual mode, but want a fully meter coupled manual mode. They seem to want some degree of "automation" (read: complete interconnection between the meter and the exposure controls) in their "manual". By their definition a Leica M3 with an MR meter attached isn't a real manual camera as the f/stop is not connected mechanically to the meter display.

The A1 was the first 35mm SLR to have all 4 of what are now considered standard basic modes; manual, aperture priority, shutter priority, and program. The user interface was rather poor do largely to the tech available at the time and the fact that it was built on an AE-1 chassis and not designed from the ground up as a new camera. This chassis lacked the ability to provide mechanical coupling between a lens in the manual mode and the meter in the body. A new chassis would have to have been designed and built to accomplish that feat. Something that would have priced the A-1 to high to ever be a market success.

 

[sevo]

It has a perfectly usable manual mode. The issues some have with it is that they don't want a true simple manual mode, but want a fully meter coupled manual mode.

Given that it came about ten years after fully meter coupled manual mode had become state of the art for basic 35mm SLRs, that expectation does not seem that excessive. While entry level AE cameras were, for a while, lacking any manual mode, the A-1 was by far the most expensive camera that came with a crippled manual mode (and no, the Leica M4 does not count - at that time it had gone through a deep crisis, for its lack of AE and TTL meter integration, discontinued for years, and only revived by one Leica manager estimating there still was some surviving interest from enthusiasts and pros).

The user interface was rather poor do largely to the tech available at the time and the fact that it was built on an AE-1 chassis and not designed from the ground up as a new camera. This chassis lacked the ability to provide mechanical coupling between a lens in the manual mode and the meter in the body. A new chassis would have to have been designed and built to accomplish that feat. Something that would have priced the A-1 to high to ever be a market success.

It was not exactly a low priced camera in its time - upward of the top consumer Nikon, Pentax and Minolta, the most expensive consumer targeted SLR at the time (at least if we consider Leicaflex and Alpa pro or boutique). And given that Canon already had a huge success in the shape of the AE-1, they could doubtlessly have afforded a better design which would have cost less in production - grafting a digital display and timer onto a electro-mechanical time-priority AE camera makes it a camera with a irritating set of redundant components. Canon doubtlessly was capable of much better designs, the F-1 and New F-1 are excellent in design - but the A-1 is more like their teething problem in the transition to digital electronics.

 

[Huss]

By their definition a Leica M3 with an MR meter attached isn't a real manual camera as the f/stop is not connected mechanically to the meter display.

But with the M3 the shutter speed selection is directly connected to the meter which makes it a semi auto manual system. All you need to do is set the aperture to the indicated value.
From your description the A1 has no meter reading. And neither the aperture or shutter is coupled to anything.

Perhaps you should have compared it to an M3 w/o an MR meter?
Or to a Minolta CLE in manual mode. I love my CLE but it was a weird design choice by Minolta to turn off the meter when in manual mode.

 

[sevo]

From your description the A1 has no meter reading. And neither the aperture or shutter is coupled to anything.

The aperture is coupled, the shutter is not. And other than the Leicameter it does not have a right/wrong (match needle) display.

 

[flavio81]

It doesn't. Compare an FTb to an A-1 and you immediately see the difference.

I'm amazed by the comments.

I'm a Canon freak and i've owned or own:

AE-1
A-1
EF
FT
F-1
New F-1

The A-1, in manual mode, shows you the selected shutter speed and the suggested aperture. So you do have metering and you do have manual exposure control. And it shows "M" while at it, so you are told you're in manual mode and the aperture shown is the meter output, not the actual aperture.

The FT and FTb (earlier versions) can do match needle, but once you have matched, they don't show you the shutter speed on the display yet nobody complains. At least the A-1 show you the speed you're at. Plus the A-1 meter is far quicker, far more sensitive and does not suffer from memory effects.

The EF show you exactly the same info as the A-1 when in manual mode, yet nobody complains (the EF is the most coveted of the FD bodies along with the T90 and New F-1)

Any well-liked meterless manual camera like the Leica M3 or Nikon F operate exactly like the A-1 when in manual mode, and nobody complains about them, yet the A-1 shows you the shutter speed and the suggested aperture.

The A-1 was made primarily as an auto camera. It has memory lock, exposure compensation, an extremely sensitive and reliable meter, and a viewfinder display that is very easy on the eyes and can be disabled for you to concentrate fully on the picture. It also, like all A-series camera, have a soft electromagnetic release button and a very smooth mirror and shutter action (something that is often overlooked when evaluating the A-series cameras. They have one of the most smooth shutter and mirror mechanisms of all cameras.) It also has the most intuitive way of changing between P, Tv, Av and Manual modes of any camera i've handled. You can know which mode you're at just by feeling with your fingers...

I owned an A-1 for years, sold pictures made with it, used it in auto mode and in manual mode, and had no complaints regarding manual mode. My only complaints were regarding battery life !

 

[flavio81]

But with the M3 the shutter speed selection is directly connected to the meter which makes it a semi auto manual system. All you need to do is set the aperture to the indicated value.

EXACTLY
AS
IN
THE A-1

:bang:

 

[Huss]

The aperture is coupled, the shutter is not. And other than the Leicameter it does not have a right/wrong (match needle) display.

Thanks for the clarification sevo.

 

[Mackinaw]

The A-1, in manual mode, shows you the selected shutter speed and the suggested aperture. So you do have metering and you do have manual exposure control. And it shows "M" while at it, so you are told you're in manual mode and the aperture shown is the meter output, not the actual aperture.......

I should have explained myself better. As you point out, the FTb uses match-needle metering, the A-1 doesn’t. The A-1 was designed to be primarily an automatic camera, with manual, seemingly, an afterthought. The fact that the camera tells me what aperture I should select is of little value to me. For me, It’s much easier and faster, with the FTb, to match needles and shoot away.

I bought my first FTb in 1971 (when they first came out). When the A-1 was introduced in 1978 I was initially quite interested, but ended up passing because of the half-ass manual mode. I ended up buying an original F-1, which I still use.

Jim B.

 

[flavio81]

I should have explained myself better. As you point out, the FTb uses match-needle metering, the A-1 doesn’t. The A-1 was designed to be primarily an automatic camera, with manual, seemingly, an afterthought. The fact that the camera tells me what aperture I should select is of little value to me. For me, It’s much easier and faster, with the FTb, to match needles and shoot away.

Yes, i mostly agree with you. But i seriously oppose the claim that the A1 has "no manual mode" or that it is "useless". Of course a FTb or F1 is faster to operate in manual mode.

But i'd rather use the manual mode of the A1 than the horrible manual mode of the Nikon F3! That tiny +/- display was a real mistake by Nikon...

 

[Fraser]

Yes, i mostly agree with you. But i seriously oppose the claim that the A1 has "no manual mode" or that it is "useless". Of course a FTb or F1 is faster to operate in manual mode.

But i'd rather use the manual mode of the A1 than the horrible manual mode of the Nikon F3! That tiny +/- display was a real mistake by Nikon...

I would also rather have the nice to use aperture control on the canon rather than the clunky Nikon one that went down hill until they finally got rid on the g lenses.

 

[Huss]

I would also rather have the nice to use aperture control on the canon rather than the clunky Nikon one that went down hill until they finally got rid on the g lenses.

You're talking about the aperture ring on the lens for the Nikons?
They are lovely to use on any non AF Nikon lens i.e. non AI, AI and AIS lenses. On a Nikon 60mm D AF lens, the aperture ring is plastic and feels horrid.

 

[flavio81]

I would also rather have the nice to use aperture control on the canon rather than the clunky Nikon one that went down hill until they finally got rid on the g lenses.

I find the aperture ring excellent on the Nikon pre-AI lenses. Better than the aperture ring on the Canon FD lenses. That means, more ergonomic, smoother, easier to use.