R2A/R3A or a Mamiya 6/7?

[agoglanian]

what do you all think?

im selling my 35mm canon SLR bodies, and with it i should be able to get a nice condition M6, OR i could get an R2a/r3a, heck maybe even both if the price is good enough.

or should i go with the mamiya? i already have an RZ67 for my studio work, an di just want some kind of rangefinder to do artwork.

possibilities:
Leica M4, M5, M6 TTL
Bessa R2A and 1 or 2 lenses
Bessa R3A and 1 or 2 lenses
Bessa R2A and R3A bodies.

or a Mamiya 6/7 w/ 1 lens

what do you think would be best?

 

[julianphotoart]

Mamiya 6. An awesome camera, especially for its size. I have a 7 but I wish I had the 6.

 

[wlewisiii]

If I had the money, I'd buy a 6 in an instant. 6x6 and the Mamiya lenses? Yummy.

The only thing to bear in mind is if you can live with the 75/3.5. I do all the time as I use a lot of old folders, so slower lenses are part of the game. But if you have any need for speed, the 50mm f/4, 75mm f/3.5 & 150mm f/4.5 may not be fast enough. OTOH, it will sync at all speeds 😀

Good luck!

William

 

[Kevin]

Hi William,

The Mamiya 6 has a collapsable mount which makes it much more compact than the 7. How do you like your shots? Square? You can always crop, but if you like more of a rectangle and do not wish to sacrifice by cropping, then maybe the Mamiya 7 is a better choice for you. You already have a 6x7 format camera, maybe you are looking for another format?

Will you be needing more lenses for the body? If you are happy with just one lens, you might go for a folder (which I know nothing about) or a Fujica RF, either the GW or GSW (or even a 4.5x6), which come in 6x7, 6x8 and 6x9 formats. The GWs come with a 90mm f/3.5 fixed lens, the GSWs with a 65mm f/5.6 fixed lens. You can only buy them used as Fuji has discontinued making them, which would be an issue for you as well.

A Leica M6 is a real treat. My second body needs repair and a CLA which wll cost me well over $700 - Ouch. On the other hand, these bodies last for decades if taken care of.

You can put leica glass on a Bessa or CV lenses on a Leica-M, so there is a lot of flexibility there. There are lots of lenses, in fact, which will fit on a Leica M6. But choice can sometimes be a bad thing.

Are you a fast shooter? Do you mind changing rolls every 12, 10 or 8 shots? If you do mind, maybe 35mm format is better for you.

Small format rangefinders are a treat, they are great for people photography because they are so small. Maybe discression is what you need. The Mamiyas and Fujicas are big by comparison. Except my Leicas have rapidwinders on them, so their size and weight come close to my medium-format cameras, only the lenses are smaller.

The Bessas look sweet - I have been thinking about this camera system also. Look on the forum to see what others have been saying about this camera.

Perhaps you need a requirements list? Film format, compactness, lens options, automatic features, to start with a few.

Best,
Kevin

 

[agoglanian]

thank you kevin, that was quite possibly the most insightful response ive ever recieved.

you made some valid points, and i will have to take into careful consideration what my objective is.

im wondering if i should go with the smaller format to compliment my R-D1? i do have a lovely new 35 summicron asph on it that works quite well.

i dont know. the choices are so vast, its enough to make a man go insane.

but thank you for your input, its greatly appreciated.

-abram

 

[aizan]

throw a bronica rf645 into the mix.

 

[Fred]

I've used Leica glass and can honestly say that from what I've seen is incredible sharpness, arguably better than my Bronica kit. The differences in the formats are the tonal changes that can be produced from the bigger negative.

 

[wlewisiii]

Aside from Kevin's confusion of us, I do want to make a comment or two more. One of the things I've learned from shooting 6x6 is that I enjoy shooting to the format. If a 6x6 is done correctly, to my mind's eye, then no cropping should be needed. I feel there are a few shots in my gallery here that show my feelings on this (others may well disagree, but I digress...).

Also do not forget just how subjective the look of various glass is. I've used a few cameras by now. FSU, Leica, Zeiss, etc. I can tell you that I prefer the look of certain Zeiss lenses - Tessars, Biogons and Sonnars for example - but not the various Leica lenses I've used. And it means didly. The real question is what you prefer. Perhaps you will like Leica best; perhaps not. The presumption that you will does none of us any good. Understand, this is not to say that I think these lenses are bad - simply that I prefer a certain look over the one they tend to give. You may feel similarily. Or not 🙂 (PS. Contax glass can go on an R2C just as easily as Leica on an R2... 😀 ).

As I said above, _my_ first choice of the selection you named, all else being equal, would be the Mamiya 6. A collapsable 6x6 MF camera with a small selection of exquisite lenses available. It has a very real set of limitations built in as does every other camera/camera system. If what you want to do will fit within those limitations, then it may well be the right camera for you. And from that perspective, Kevins last line -

Perhaps you need a requirements list? Film format, compactness, lens options, automatic features, to start with a few.

is very correct.

Hope this extended blather helps.

William

 

[Doug]

Pretty hard to overcome the advantages of a 56x56mm or 56x70mm image as compared to 24x36mm. I'd also put in a plug for the Bronica RF645, as it's very well made in addition to being a very well throught-out design. I like mine so much I just bought a second body.

 

[gabrielelopez]

I think too much depends from the mainly use you've got to do..
I would love a leica, Had a M&TTL that needed repair and i had to sell it for the crazy-price required for that..
In my opinion, just personal, I would get a bessa and lenses (to use on your RD_1, too!!) or the Mamiya if the bigger negative is important....but you have a medium format yet, is that necessary, so?

You need a RF, so get the Bessa, save money and use them to take a nice trip.

Hi!

 

[Kevin]

throw a bronica rf645 into the mix.

Indeed I have heard a lot of forum members praise their bronicas. Do you have to turn that camera into the vertical position in order to take horizontal shots, like you do with the Fuji 4,5x6 RF models?

 

[Doug]

Indeed you do! But then most other cameras require turning 90 degrees to achieve vertical compositions! 🙂

 

[Kevin]

You mean most other 4,5x6 RFs ?

 

[Fred]

My lens comparison was Leica v ETRS MC glass. The later Bronica PE lenses were much better for the ETRS.

I have heard the RF645 is a very well made and compact medium format camera and that the lenses are very good also.

Doug, Is the meter TTL on the RF645?

 

[Rick Waldroup]

I owned a Mamiya 7 for about a year. The lenses are wonderful but I never liked the viewfinder all that much. Plus, the lenses are expensive. I later sold it and went back to 35mm and now own a Bessa R2 and R3A and several different brands of lenses.

 

[agoglanian]

so is the bronica rf really that much better than the mamiya? considering i could pick one up for $944 with the 65mm and 45mm +finder. is the build quality better?

im just wondering what would be better, and if i would be happier w/ a 35mm RF or not as my art camera, for any work that i do for school or otherwise i shoot my RZ or my 4x5. but for art, i wouldn't be as pained to get a 35. especially because i love to print full frame 🙂.

i dont know guys, i guess i need to question my motives, but you all have given me such great responses its making me hard to choose! haha. i wish ic ould have all of them. then there wouldnt be an issue 😉

 

[Doug]

You mean most other 4,5x6 RFs ?

Most other cameras. AFAIK all 645 RFs have vertical orientation while all 645 SLRs are horizontal. Traditional 645 folders are also vertical, being essentially a "half frame" compared to 6x9. Note that almost all half-frame 35's like my Olympus Pen F are vertical normally as well. Either orientation is inconvenient for some people for some shots, so take your pick; for me it just doesn't matter. 🙂

Fred, the RF645's meter is a matrix type located in the viewfinder.

I've never handled either the Mamiya 6 or 7 so can't compare build quality with the Bronica. But Bronica had the advantage of having the Mamiyas on the market already to target. They did a couple things better, such as the automatic actuation of the blind when changing lenses. And it is very well-constructed and ergonomic.

And it really is quite compact in size. I set it next to my Leica M2 with 35 'cron + hood, and the Bronica is the same size except for being 1" taller. It's nearly as handy to pack around...

 

[shaaktiman]

Hi,

Everyone has their own preferences. 🙂 I can only relate my own.

I have a bessa r2 with the CV 21, 35 and 90mm lenses. It's a GORGEOUS camera and a lot of fun to travel with. Sturdy, small and great value for money. I personally don't see any big advantage that the leicas have over the bessas (for the vast amounts of money anyway. Especially the M6. The MPs... different story, those are pretty special.)

However, I also recently got an Mamiya 6. Used from ebay and in decent shape. Not nearly as pretty. Plastic, feels crappy buildwise and not as nice of a "shooting experience" if you know what I mean. But for 6 x 6 it's super compact, the lenses are razor sharp, it's quieter than my bessa (and my friend's leica!) and med. format will always blow 35mm out of the water. It's just no comparison. Considering that it isn't much bigger than my bessa when collapsed, it is now my default camera.

While I haven't used the bessa since I got the M6, I can't bear to part with it. Since you already have a med format kit, you might find the tiny bessa fun to play with. It really is 90% of a leica for a fraction of the cost.

Both are great systems though. You'll probably be really happy either way. RFs are a big difference in convenince and street handling compared to an RZ67. Let us know what you choose!

adam

 

[Doug]

FWIW, just shot the Bronica RF645 next to my Leica M2 for size comparison...

 

[agoglanian]

im thinking i might go with an R3A (may wait for the grey one) and pick up a 50mm f/1.5 nokton, to compliment my 35 summicron asph. the mamiya 6/7s are just....too expensive for my meager student budget. i think ill get the mamiya 6 when i get a job that pays out. but for now, im going to get the Bessa! now i just have to decide if i want the r2a or the r3a, im thinking the r3a cause of the 1:1 finder, kinda like that on my r-d1.

i just wish i had endless funding 😉 (i do like the thought of the 12mm heliar... mmmm)