R4M or R4A?

[Pennylane]

Hi all

I'm new to the forum and also rangefinder cams (bored with DSLRs!).

I've got my mind set on the Voigtlander R4 with the Ultron 28mm. as introduction to the world of rangefinders and i like the wide-angle.

Questions :

1. does the Apecture Priority in the A make things easier? Is there a difference in the A or M in the speed of use (in say, street photography?)

2. Is there any further difference between them if i just simply put the A into its manual mode? Say the LED display?

I like the idea of the mechanical shutter so was wondering anyone's got tips to over come the 'speed' and convenience issue with the A vs M models.


Thanks - and any other comments would be much appreciated!

 

[Keith]

I had the same dillema and chose the A but a dozen or so rolls on I've yet to use it in that mode!

It is nice to know that it's there though ... and the electronic verses mechanical shutter debate means little to me.

 

[Roger S]

I went for the M just because I wanted to be sure the thing would work without the battery. I certainly don't miss not having an A option and, for me, the reliance on battery would have been too high a price to pay.

 

[silverliner]

My R4 is an A!!! I used to have an R3M but I later traded with an R2A because I don't need the 40 FL but instead I want a 35 FL!!! and an AE is always a plus for me the same as my M7 acquisition. LR44s can be found in nearly every superstore and they are light, small and cheap why not keep 4 in your bag.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I recommend the R4A. In AE mode, you just set the aperture and don't think about it; the camera figures exposure for you. You only need to worry about exposure in unusual lighting circumstances; ie., photographing a black cat in the snow, a shady patch on a sunny day, etc.

With the R4A you can always use manual mode to bone up on your exposure skills, which I recommend.

Personally, I don't recommend the R4M for metered, non-AE shooting. I find the meter very hard to see, especially in bright light. Walking around on a sunny day, I spent tons of time trying to read the damned numbers in the finder...I switched to R4A, and now, when I want to shoot manually, I use an M2.

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

I used to have the R3A.

It was fine in A, with sometimes some +/- compensation dialed in.

 

[jody36]

I use the R3m dont want to worry bout batteries. I find full manual is fun.

 

[JRG]

I went for the M rather than the A, but only partly because of the battery thing. I know I'd rarely use the AE feature --- it's just not the way I want to play at photography.

But there was something else, too. I've earned my living since the mid-1960s by playing with computers, and I've developed a strong distrust of electronic gizmos and of their longevity. And the more recently the gizmo was built, the less I trust it.

I'd rather have a purely mechanical shutter, one that someone will probably be able to repair years from now, than an electronic device that can go belly-up merely because some little sliver of silicon somewhere inside decides to fail. When that happens, there are apt to be no replacement parts --- even if you knew exactly what part is at fault, and how to get at it.

Not long ago I sold a perfectly beautiful Mamiya 6 kit with the full set of lenses, for pretty much this kind of reason. Terrific lenses, great handling, and brilliant images. But I couldn't shake the feeling that one day I'd pick it up and discover that I had an expensive, awkward paperweight.

I just want my cameras to be purely mechanical, thanks. (And they needn't have a meter on-board.) Now, I need to stockpile enough good scanners that I can continue to make prints in hybrid style for a while.

 

[Doug]

Those who wish to avoid batteries will find their camera doesn't have a meter either. Oops, wouldn't buy a camera without a built-in meter, would you! That would be really roughing it. Alright, so a battery is acceptable for the meter, but not for the shutter? Seems odd and inconsistent to me! I went with the R4A, and when I want to use it on Manual, that's an easy choice. YMMV... 🙂

 

[capitalK]

The only time I put my R2A in "A" mode is when I am driving. I will stop down the lens as far as I can depending on the light, set the lens to hyperfocal distance and then I basically have a literal "point and shoot" camera. I don't do it that often and I can't say I've made any award-winning images doing that.

If I bought another Bessa (which would probably be an R4) I think I'd get an M over the A.

 

[Spider67]

The AE setting is a nice feature to have. But Ask yourself what made you change from DSLR's to RF's. A mechCam does not depend on batteries for its basic functions. I had to learn it the hard way when my SLR I had wanted because it hat A and P mode. I used mainly mechCams since then.......but the light meter also needs batteries...Hmmm. I am sure you lurked around on RFF long enough and surely
have read threads where memebers wrote about (and enjoyed) their experience using no meter but methods of "guesstimation" like the sunny sixteen rule or their own experience. There you have a didctic reason to get a mechCam: by having to meter the light before setting speed or aperture you will gain the kind of experience that willcome in handy when you have no meter at hand.
But I also had the time when I could not use my camera because the battery of my external light meter had run out (and I had no experience or a batteryless meter)
I have an R2 but I sometimes think of getting an R2A as a second body.
Dougs arguments sound valid for me when it comes to simply using it.
So think what you are more into.
Best Regards from Vienna
Des

 

[ruilebreiro]

Nice thread, I have same doubt, namely about the difference between 'M' and 'A' shutter.

Other than the electronical/mechanical construction, do they feel diferent?
Do they sound different?
Do they have different shutter lag?

Thanks,
Rui

 

[__hh]

My partner sometimes use my camera, so the A turns out quite handy 🙂

I also like the Aperture Priority mode when in constantly changing light situations and when I feel lazy.

 

[Roger S]

I'm with JRG on this. But also I found when I used auto cameras (I've had quite a few over the years, and still have some) my "feel" for what I was doing changed. I subsequently went retro and reverted to an M4 with an external meter, and the R4M is actually a good compromise for me. Going back to auto would just be that step too far.

 

[Tuolumne]

I wonder if the very wide field of view that the R4 is designed for has any effect? With such a wide field of view, don't you often find your subject back lit, or lit in some way that tends to fool Auto exposure systems? I'd think you would have the camera in manual mode most of the time for this reason. And if so, why bother with an Auto mode camera in the first place? Any comments on this thought from the R4 user community?

/T

 

[aizan]

street photography doesn't really benefit from AE, imo. it's all about carving off as much chaos as possible so you're ready for what comes your way. aside from sticking with one lens (for the most part), hcb preferred overcast light to avoid complications with shadows. winogrand and meyerowitz stuck to the one illuminated side of the street for similar reasons. exposure remains constant unless the sun is setting, or going behind clouds. in those situations, it's more reassuring to manually set the shutter speed.

i think ae is more convenient for casual photography. first, you're outside. then you're in a restaurant. an hour later, you're in a car. and then you're indoors. you're not really in high gear. it's indy 500 vs. daily commute, manual transmission vs. automatic.

 

[newfinder]

I came from the same way like you, DSLR->SLR->RF.

I chose the R2M with 35f1.2, because I'm tired of shooting 1000 pics/day in a tour or model shooting day. Just like you said 'bored' for the fast food. I'm not making a living on the camera, I don't need it to be fast and so so accurate.

RF gave me the way of relaxing photography, so I don't bother with the 'A', if I need this kind of convenience, I would get back to DSLR🙂 In fact, I've found a 'M' gives me more than 'thinking before shooting', it helps me a lot on light estimation of the dedicated scene. For a period time, there would be automatic A/S numbers came out of my mind when I work into a different light condition.😀

Personal favorite, hope it helps your choice.

 

[Pennylane]

I decided to go with the M. But i have to say that i find the LED display really difficult to see as it's tiny and a bit blurry (might just need new glasses). What's the A like in that regard?

 

[aizan]

it should be sharp on both. make sure the eyepiece is tightly screwed in. if that doesn't work, i guess you should see the optometrist.

have fun!

 

[Nh3]

remove the eye piece.