raking pebbles

[lukitas]

As an artist, a creator of images, and seeing the endless proliferation of images, of very diverse tastes, degrees of complexity, vulgarity and artistic sensibility, I feel that 'originality' has become a word without meaning. The category of 'new' has become impossible to obtain. Everything has been done before. Nothing new under the sun, etc...

I try to be mindful of the zen gardener, who every day, after breakfast, takes his rake and rakes the pebbles of the monastery garden, a few rocks surrounded by a sea of pebbles. He tries to recreate the same work of art every single day of his life. It doesn't bother him that there is nothing 'new' in what he does, but doing it delivers more than the satisfaction of a job well done.

I think that should be my aim in photography, just trying to make every day another version of a photograph that has been made hundreds and thousands of times before, hoping that this time might be better.

 

[peterm1]

I understand the zen approach you are talking of but you know I don't think that way. I actually think the opposite with my work at least. I do a lot of street photography - but more in the style of Saul Leiter than say Cartier Bresson. Every time I make an image I know its an image that has never been seen before and will never be seen again. The moment comes and the moment goes. But it will never in the history of the universe repeat itself. Its like photographing clouds. The same general pattern of clouds may be discernible elsewhere but that specific group of features will never ever be seen again. Same with my photos - they may have some similarities to Saul Leiter (I hope) but they are different and its that difference that hopefully makes them worthwhile. And in fact each photo I take is often different to other photos I take. Still that is just my view and it may well be because of the style of photography I have I know each image is transitory and ephemeral. But if you look at the following image my thinking is that I can look forever for another photo like this but will never see anything even marginally close because its elements are so unique. In fact if you look at it and compare to the second image both have many stylistic similarities and similarities in setting (quite dark areas, pools of light, people doing stuff, reflections on reflections etc) but they are so different that to me they are not just different representations of the same thing but entirely different things interpreted using a similar style. To that extent at least they are unique.


Layers in time and space by yoyomaoz, on Flickr


Lunch by yoyomaoz, on Flickr

 

[airfrogusmc]

I mean over 2000 years of 2 dimensional art and probably as many images have been made in the past 5 years has the entire time before that so your thoughts are probably in line. I think whats important is to take everything you've learned, all the influences and all that history and try to somehow mix it up and make it your own. I would rather make crappy honest images that look somewhat like mine than to make images that look like everyone else's. I think the important part is that we all keep creating.

Interesting images Peter. Love the different planes of implied reality. The transparency and sometimes lack of is very interesting.

 

[robert blu]

You both have interesting points. I agree that "Everything has been done before. Nothing new under the sun, etc..." as lukitas say. There are so many images around that most of them are in the "already seen 10.000 times" category and for this reason do not catch my (our?) attention. But in spite of this I sometimes find astonishing photographs which let me think "wow, I have never seen something like this!".
Most of times it is not the subject but the way it is conveyed, the use of the light, of the composition...Peter give us two excellent examples here of interesting situation in a genre (street photography) where we have seen so much (and many not interesting photos, IMHO) and I believe his capacity "to see" the subject and later to "process" it in order to give a photo we can appreciate are both contributing the final result.
robert
PS: Just my idea, which could be wrong, of course...

 

[Chris101]

I'm trying to get worse rather than better. Is this bad?

 

[Sparrow]

I'm trying to get worse rather than better. Is this bad?

... or good? ... as long as I can get by without using juxtaposition I'm happy

 

[Murchu]

As an artist, a creator of images, and seeing the endless proliferation of images, of very diverse tastes, degrees of complexity, vulgarity and artistic sensibility, I feel that 'originality' has become a word without meaning. The category of 'new' has become impossible to obtain. Everything has been done before. Nothing new under the sun, etc...

I try to be mindful of the zen gardener, who every day, after breakfast, takes his rake and rakes the pebbles of the monastery garden, a few rocks surrounded by a sea of pebbles. He tries to recreate the same work of art every single day of his life. It doesn't bother him that there is nothing 'new' in what he does, but doing it delivers more than the satisfaction of a job well done.

I think that should be my aim in photography, just trying to make every day another version of a photograph that has been made hundreds and thousands of times before, hoping that this time might be better.

I agree. I think this concept of originality is a tyrannical monkey many need to get off their back. I've seen the same old line trotted out again, nothing new under the sun, etc, to the the extent it cripples and paralyses many. I think of any creative/ artistic endeavour as one of slowly peeling back layers, where in order to get to the centre, you need to continually peel away, refining your vision in the process.

That last word is the key for me, process, most seem to obsess on results, and neglect the truly valuable thing - the creative process and journey. To obsess about results, is like those who continually worry about the future, while letting the present pass them by, whereas by simply taking care of the present, everything else will usually take care of itself.

I like the principle of mindfulness in this regard, that of aspiring to be fully present in our day to day lives, and not on autopilot. It seems with increasing choice, and demands on our attention, we trust more and more to definitions others have put on things, blindly accepting conventional visions of things, and not exploring with our own senses and mind. This modern convention is the bane of the artistic/ creative process in my mind, as well as the modern rush towards things.

It seems we are constantly evaluating ourselves and our progress at every single juncture, instead of simply following our feet or our eyes, and seeing where they lead us. We've got to get those tyrannical monkeys of originality and quest for approval off our backs, I think.

 

[Sparrow]

... my particular Zen alternative ... I keep the pebbles completely flat, but do return to photograph the same subject repeatedly

 

[Murchu]

There are shifts in the creative flow, dynamic moments of "new." Or originality to use your word. But many think of these changes as false...

Here is an article which agrees with you http://www.aeonmagazine.com/world-views/roger-scruton-fake-culture/.

I find the idea that there is nothing new ridiculousness, there is nothing but new, even when it seems old. This is my life, one that has never be lived by anyone else.

Thanks for the link, and the magazine 🙂

Very much agree on the bold above too, as they say, always be ourselves, everyone else is already taken 🙂

 

[airfrogusmc]

There are shifts in the creative flow, dynamic moments of "new." Or originality to use your word. But many think of these changes as false...

Here is an article which agrees with you http://www.aeonmagazine.com/world-views/roger-scruton-fake-culture/.

I find the idea that there is nothing new ridiculousness, there is nothing but new, even when it seems old. This is my life, one that has never be lived by anyone else.

Yes agree. I believe even if everything has been done you can still bring something new and that usually come from a very honest place. Look around and its rare that you can tell one photographer work from the next. Many are all working form the same "rules" and using pretty much the same equipment being inspired and trying to copy the exact same looks. In that world to quote Weston "there can be no freshness of vision."

 

[airfrogusmc]

That last word is the key for me, process, most seem to obsess on results, and neglect the truly valuable thing - the creative process and journey. To obsess about results, is like those who continually worry about the future, while letting the present pass them by, whereas by simply taking care of the present, everything else will usually take care of itself.

Well said...Its all a journey and you can't take that journey unless you start and you are so right about the process. Some like Winogrand said it was the process that was important to him. When he died he had what 2000 unprocessed rolls. Just go out and create honestly and the journey might just be amazing because we all know the ultimate destination.

 

[Murchu]

we all know the ultimate destination.

As a friend of mine is fond of saying - do what you will, no one's getting out alive 🙂

 

[airfrogusmc]

As a friend of mine is fond of saying - do what you will, no one's getting out alive 🙂

No truer words were ever spoken.

 

[daveleo]

The act and the process of making pictures is wonderful, and I make many pictures that I am reasonably happy with.
But very very few of them are anything the world needs to look at (outside the context of a "show us [ ]" kind of collection
or a nice framing for a coffee house wall).
I struggle to understand things at the levels expressed in this thread, and I really appreciate the education.

 

[burancap]

I struggle to understand things at the levels expressed in this thread, and I really appreciate the education.

I believe my struggle to be the opposite. I seem to be all comprehension and no application. I read and I study and I read and I study. I listen and I listen. I try and I try to execute. Now, I fall somewhere in the middle of the viewpoints and blame my seeming failure (shooting the same over and over) on my incredibly boring surrounds, when it really is my failing to break out of a comfort zone. RFF has helped me more than anything else in 40 years of trying to achieve this. I have shot more so-called "street" in the last year than in the previous 39. I find myself happier and more satisfied with every roll and card -not because I am producing anything great, but rather because I am genuinely enjoying myself.

Sometimes the pebbles need a shake rather than a rake.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Hi Dave,

I think we are all on a journey though the journey itself might take many different paths the important thing is we took the first steps. Many are on different levels of the journey but there is no deadlines here so take your time and enjoy the ride. You will read about all these self professed gurus and false profits and you might even fall under the spell of one or two but the more you learn the more you rely on your own instincts. There are no secrets. There is real knowledge and that sometimes wont get absorbed until one is fully ready to except it. I know that first hand. (LoL) It's a journey and if you don't get into to big of a rush and it can be a great one. Sit back, enjoy the ride.

A couple of really good place to look if you haven't already when talking about zen and photography would be the writings and work of both Wynn Bullock and Minor White.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I find myself happier and more satisfied with every roll and card -not because I am producing anything great, but rather because I am genuinely enjoying myself.

Thats what it should be about. Just try and improve on what you are trying to say visually each time you go out and we all have good days and far to many bad ones but remember you always learn more from failure than success and success is always right next to the edge of failure.

 

[burancap]

Thats what it should be about. Just try and improve on what you are trying to say visually each time you go out and we all have good days and far to many bad ones but remember you always learn more from failure than success and success is always right next to the edge of failure.

As old dad used to say: a good engineer uses lots of pencils - a great engineer uses lots of erasers

 

[airfrogusmc]

As old dad used to say: a good engineer uses lots of pencils - a great engineer uses lots of erasers

Your dad was wise indeed.

 

[tunalegs]

I think as long as your aim is not to copy somebody else, you're probably being original enough. And if not original, then at least creative.