Rangefinder Book - All B&W photos are purple :(

[RayPA]

I had a similar problem with the calendar I produced on Lulu.com - the first production sample had a magenta cast on part of each page. Subsequent copies did not show this problem, though a few copies had a very slight cyan cast. I think their printers sometimes run slightly out of specification, and it's luck of the draw whether you get a printing defect or not...

....

I agree, and I'm wondering whether these "printers" are capable of hitting a neutral gray consistently. There are just way too many variables to control in any kind of printing. Look at all the variables inherent in offset.

Also, it doesn't sound like Lulu is really interested in high quality. They're selling the convenience of on demand printing. Maybe we're expecting too much here. I wonder iwhat percentage of their output is b&w photographic books.

Going forward with Lulu, I wonder if it may be better to create and submit duotones. The most successfully printed Book 1 images (the ones that escaped the magenta tint) were sepia toned. Maybe creating duotones with black and some other color (not necessarily toward sepia) is the best way to force some consistency and find an acceptable middle ground. Asking these machines to hit a neutral gray may be asking too much.



🙂

 

[RML]

Going forward with Lulu, I wonder if it may be better to create and submit duotones. The most successfully printed Book 1 images (the ones that escaped the magenta tint) were sepia toned. Maybe creating duotones with black and some other color (not necessarily toward sepia) is the best way to force some consistency and find an acceptable middle ground. Asking these machines to hit a neutral gray may be asking too much.

Indeed, my sepia toned photos in Book 1 looked great and exactly as I imagined them.

 

[Bertram2]

. Asking these machines to hit a neutral gray may be asking too much.
🙂

Coud be the reason indeed. But If so, they should tell the customers what can happen before they accept printing orders for B&W photos. 😡

I did NOT pay $54,50 to get B&W prints with a purple (!!) toning, I know the files you have sent them were o.k.and so far their print has failed. Basta.
( If the tone would have been sepia-like one could have tolerated it, but as Tom describes it it is outside of the limits of tolerance)

If my book arrives with that purple tint Tom described they will have a hard time at the phone. This forum has 5000 members, many of them multiple connected to other web forums and galleries. I can't imagine these Lulu folks are interested in any kinda negative advertising all over the www.

Concerning the US laws: What should force you to accept a faulty product ?
I mean this is no real warranty issue, it's a faulty product, like a car delivered with the wrong colour .
Opinions ?

bertram

 

[taffer]

I'm with you Bertram, this is unacceptable. According to Tom we're not talking of a slight magenta cast sometimes visible as with the first book, but of something more serious.

I guess that if it has affected the tones, then luminosity and grey levels may have been affected too. That's enough to ruin the photos.

Cost is not an excuse at all, on their top 100 list you see some calendars which are mainly photo books.

I'm glad payday is being late this month. I won't be placing an order until I see how this problem evolves, I hope it's only a problem with a limited number of copies and most of the already ordered ones come fine.

They should be accepting returns and paying for return shipping as well with no questions asked. If many books result to be defective and they don't act as they should, they will be sure facing a very bad reputation from now on...

Oscar

 

[Socke]

Hm, our printer had a Xerox Dokucolor and the operator was allways complaining about it. Canges in humidity and room temperature may throw your colours off even in the same batch.

 

[Bertram2]

My copy of the Rangefinder II book arrived today.

I hope I just got a bad copy and it can be returned for a good one, but in my copy of the book, all the B&W shots are purple with practically no dMAX. 🙁

It is like the files were never pre-press converted for CMYK printing.

Anyone else have this problem?

Tom

Tom,
your book is not acceptable in any way, if I understood your description correctly. So please let us know what reaction you get from Lulu when you complain.

Thanks,
bertram

 

[Bertram2]

Hm, our printer had a Xerox Dokucolor and the operator was allways complaining about it. Canges in humidity and room temperature may throw your colours off even in the same batch.

If so the result is more or less random and it would be a lottery to ask for a better sample ?
I got a color and a sepia toned photo in the the book, they weren't affected, but this could not be a reason for me to accept the rest with a purple tone on all B&W photos.

bertram

 

[dcsang]

Many printers (photo printers at least) have downloadable ICC profiles which will help, if not ensure, that the colour produced on your screen matches the colour produced by their printers.

You'd think that print shops; especially if they're dealing with ANY photographic items such as, oh, potentially BOOKS or such would do the same.

A downloadable ICC profile solves most, but not all, of such issues imho.

Dave

 

[Socke]

If so the result is more or less random and it would be a lottery to ask for a better sample ?
I got a color and a sepia toned photo in the the book, they weren't affected, but this could not be a reason for me to accept the rest with a purple tone on all B&W photos.

bertram

Not random but it may seem so to the uninitiated 🙂

They probably print on paper a bit bigger than A3 and the book is about A5 so they have eight pages on one sheet, the pages are distributed over several sheets so that they are in the intended order after the sheets are folded and cut.

If they are to make 100 books made off 100 pages they need 15 sheets which are printed one after the other. If the environmental conditions change between any of the sheets you'll get a perfect page two and a page three which is off.

My printer used the Xerox only for jobs which could be printed on one sheet, eight pages A5 or four pages A4, or jobs where colour accuracy wasn't important.

 

[ch1]

At this point I just want to get delivery. If the product is as poor quality as is suggested then I plan on diputing the charge on my credit card.

Others who paid that way may also want to consider this option.

 

[JoeFriday]

I've spent a lot of time going through the Lulu Forums (again)... and I get widely varying 'information'.. most of which is that Lulu color consistency, especially with grayscale/b&w images, sucks.. they offer essentially zero guidance, and don't respond to questions by knowledgable graphic designers.. it seems they just don't want to get involved in the quality control of their product, perhaps to shrug it off as "not my problem"

Lulu doesn't offer an ICC profile, and doesn't even recommend RBG, sRBG, or any variation in particular.. and the members seem to disagree quite a bit as to which works best.. using one profile with give one customer good images, but causes another customer to lose shadow details and possibly causes posterizing

from what I've been reading, right now I just feel really happy that the PDF printed all the pages and has no text missing (I'm assuming).. apparently other people haven't even been that fortunate

here's an interesting thread, for those who care to read the more technical end of RIP-based printing

http://www.lulu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18518&highlight=grayscale

even a few people who feel they have it worked out as well as they can, still are getting inconsistent results from one print to the next

 

[lubitel]

I just had some invitations (with black and white photos) printed on a similar maschine, and I had a hell of a time having them look B&W and not pink, green or whatever color was coming out. Finally the cards were B&W, but compared to its duotoned predecessors, they didnt looks as "sharp" or contrasty, although they were the same files.

I guess I am just saying that printing is complicated. And BW more so than color.

P.S. It also took alot of tweaking around on the part of the printer to make them look B&W.

 

[back alley]

i was happy with the first book.
i just hope the second is the same when it arrives.

joe

 

[ray_g]

If my book arrives with that purple tint Tom described they will have a hard time at the phone.

I don't think they even have a phone number to call. It's like buying airline tickets from Expedia. 🙁

Concerning the US laws: What should force you to accept a faulty product ?
I mean this is no real warranty issue, it's a faulty product, like a car delivered with the wrong colour .
Opinions ?

bertram

I do not agree either, but their return policy is clearly spelled out.

 

[photogdave]

The latest version of iPhoto lets you design and publish your own hardcover and softcover books. A friend of mine made one with colour and b&w photos and it looks pretty good. He said he just used the images' native colour profiles and did not colour correct. These photos were a mix of images from Panasonic LC5, LC1 and scanned negs and slides. His ownly complaint was the thickness of the paper.
I wonder how Apple prints these books compared to Lulu?

 

[JoeFriday]

I've had a few PMs from people who are really concerned that they submitted their images in the wrong format.. just to allay everyone's fears, nobody did anything to their files that might be causing a color issue

all files were checked over several times to ensure they were all in the appropriate format before the final file was generated and sent to Lulu

no matter whether you sent your files to me as RGB or grayscale, they eventually were put in RGB format.. and it would make no difference whether it was done in the scanning process or afterward

so anyone who is wondering if they messed up.. the answer is not a chance

 

[JoeFriday]

The latest version of iPhoto lets you design and publish your own hardcover and softcover books. A friend of mine made one with colour and b&w photos and it looks pretty good. He said he just used the images' native colour profiles and did not colour correct. These photos were a mix of images from Panasonic LC5, LC1 and scanned negs and slides. His ownly complaint was the thickness of the paper.
I wonder how Apple prints these books compared to Lulu?

I looked into that process just a few days before finalizing our book.. I didn't investigate it enough to know what process they use.. I only saw that it was very expensive compared to Lulu.. and the books are generated using their templates, so it wasn't an option for us.. plus, you are really limited to the number of photos you can use

20 page hardcover (up to 120 photos)... $$29.80
each additional page $1.49

20 page hardcover (up to 240 photos)... $59.80
each additional page $2.99

no idea what technology they use, tho

http://www.mypublisher.com/products.php

 

[Andrew Touchon]

I just received my copy of the book. Indoors under flurescent lighting the B/W photos have a slight purple cast. However, the B/W photos look O.K. when viewed under natural sunlight. 🙂

 

[taffer]

PHEW...

'slight' is the word. I asume the magenta cast of the first book will be purplish here...

But that's good news, I was thinking on purplevision or something...

Thanks for the info ! 🙂

 

[kaiyen]

Not that this is in any way practical for a book like this, but there is a reason why folks using inkjets have resorted to third party, all-greyscale inksets using customized RIPs and other processes. It's one of the few ways to get a solid dmax and neutral grey.

Even the field of ICC profiles that will work for B&W is tough. The fact is that those profiles are assuming the use of all the available colors, which will immediately introduce _some_ color cast.

I hope that the color issue is resolved. Not just because I'd like to buy one eventually, but also because a lot of work went into it, and I would be sad if some of it went for naught.

allan