drjoke
Well-known
Let's say you have a very busy day job (office job) and you are not a professional photographer, you can still carry your rangefinder on more useful occasions than a SLR, right? Perhaps a Point-N-Shoot is even more portable, but you get a good balance of features vs. portability, hence a rangefinder is for you, right?
Is what I am saying above, the conventional wisdom? Now seriously guys, does a rangefinder in its actuality actually provide you more opportunities to take good photos? I mean, if you believe you are a street photographer, but most of your pictures are taken on weekends, then a SLR will work just as good, plus you get additional features?
I have recently modified my Northface male-purse into a stealth camera bag, so no one would know I have a camera with me. I can hide either my rangefinder or a small DSLR (350D) with a prime in there with no suspicion. But, if I ever carry my rangefinder out in the open, people tend to stare, especially because I don't look like a tourist around here. In Bangkok, people tend to be more forgiving with tourists, as a camera is expected. If I run into people I know (it always happens), they will be asking what I am doing walking around the city with a camera because most of them don't know what street photography is.
Anyway, I have been too busy with my day job and other obligations on weekends so I don't get to take as much photos as I like. I am wondering what would be the best way to adapt myself, my camera, etc. to be able to sneak it around on more useful occasions. I just got some new lenses, films, and ideas, but haven't been able to live it out due to the constraint in time.
Is what I am saying above, the conventional wisdom? Now seriously guys, does a rangefinder in its actuality actually provide you more opportunities to take good photos? I mean, if you believe you are a street photographer, but most of your pictures are taken on weekends, then a SLR will work just as good, plus you get additional features?
I have recently modified my Northface male-purse into a stealth camera bag, so no one would know I have a camera with me. I can hide either my rangefinder or a small DSLR (350D) with a prime in there with no suspicion. But, if I ever carry my rangefinder out in the open, people tend to stare, especially because I don't look like a tourist around here. In Bangkok, people tend to be more forgiving with tourists, as a camera is expected. If I run into people I know (it always happens), they will be asking what I am doing walking around the city with a camera because most of them don't know what street photography is.
Anyway, I have been too busy with my day job and other obligations on weekends so I don't get to take as much photos as I like. I am wondering what would be the best way to adapt myself, my camera, etc. to be able to sneak it around on more useful occasions. I just got some new lenses, films, and ideas, but haven't been able to live it out due to the constraint in time.
bmattock
Veteran
I don't spend a lot of time wondering about what people think. I just do what I want to do.
That must be weird - no one seems to be like me. Is everyone very concerned about how they're perceived when taking photos?
'Sneaking' is alien to my nature.
That must be weird - no one seems to be like me. Is everyone very concerned about how they're perceived when taking photos?
'Sneaking' is alien to my nature.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
Hide in the open.
Walk around with a camera in your hand where everyone can see it.
Put it to your eye over and over again, even when you're not taking a picture.
Soon, everyone will know you as that crazy guy who always has a camera and they won't even notice you any more.
Beats sneaking around.
Walk around with a camera in your hand where everyone can see it.
Put it to your eye over and over again, even when you're not taking a picture.
Soon, everyone will know you as that crazy guy who always has a camera and they won't even notice you any more.
Beats sneaking around.
amateriat
We're all light!
Depends. Some of the smaller dSLRs around at the moment can be, in fact, a tad smaller than your typical RF, but that's assuming you don't put a typical zoom lens on the thing. A well-chosen normal or moderate wide-angle prime can set you up well. But I'm not much into SLRs of any kind for regular shooting anymore: My RFs, from my Hexar RFs to my Konica Auto S3 (smaller than any SLR/dSLR I've seen thus far, albeit with a fixed lens), simply feel less cumbersome and obtrusive/intrusive, and how I feel when I'm out with a camera or two counts for something. Smaller still–but not exactly an RF– is my Ricoh GR-1, faster on the draw than any digital p/s I've had the chance to handle, including my own Casio EX-850 (which in fact is pretty fast for its category).
The thing with interchangeable-lens RFs is that the lenses, by and large, are smaller than their SLR counterparts, and it is this, more than the camera bodies, that make the difference in size and bulk. (Weight is another thing: your typical contemporary SLR/dSLR "normal" lens is largely plastic in construction, whereas your typical rangefinder equivalent is almost always of some or other metal.)
- Barrett
The thing with interchangeable-lens RFs is that the lenses, by and large, are smaller than their SLR counterparts, and it is this, more than the camera bodies, that make the difference in size and bulk. (Weight is another thing: your typical contemporary SLR/dSLR "normal" lens is largely plastic in construction, whereas your typical rangefinder equivalent is almost always of some or other metal.)
- Barrett
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amateriat
We're all light!
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NickTrop
Veteran
Any camera can be used for so-called "street photography". I find I prefer rangefinders because they're better tools for ambient light flashless photography. Without mirror slap, you can hand-hold down to 1/30 (or lower), so 400 speed film at - say f2.8 (or even f2) with a 45mm lens is no problem, since there's no mirror vibration. You can go outside and shoot at f8/f11 at 1/250 or 1/500 in sunlight.
With an SLR, you're limited to 1/focal length rule (which I find to be true) for shutter speed. So with a 50 (or 45mm) focal length, you should shoot no slower than 1/60th. That extra stop matters for ambient light photography. Also, wider angle lenses are better designed, with the rear element nearly touching the film plane, and not designed to "clear" the mirror. They're also usually quiter, some like Leicas and Yashica GSNs and Konica Hexars making barely audible clicks when the shutter is fired.
BillBingham2
Registered User
drjoke,
You could move to a GRD II (or I) a small P&S with a great lens and has something called snap mode that is great for street photography. Put a black metal CV 28mm finder on the top and you are ready to go.
I used to carry a Bessa L with a 25/4 in my hand for street stuff and while I got some looks I blended in too well. It's small and black and blended into my brief case (black on black). It was always around my wrist, never around my neck. No the L is a very light weight camera so YMMV with something heavier.
Most autofocus P&S are too slow at shooting for street work, but the snap mode on the GRD is wonderful. Several crazy folks here have them and love them. I'm not sure about the DP-1, hear good things about it, but it's way beyond my budget and I'm not sure about the lens. I have an old R1 and love the lens. The entire line of Ricoh GR/R/GRDs have world class glass that is wonderful.
Speed is important in street shooting. The more fluid you can make the motion of shooting the better off you are. When you stop to think you stand out. Get the shot and keep moving or stay there and blend in. Big zooms, flashes move the attention to you. If you blend in, the subjects attention stays elsewhere. Most of the time you do not want their attention on you, but it's a lot easier to get it to move to you than off you.
I loved my Black Bessa L with a CV 25/4 Snap-shot, it was the perfect street combo.
B2 (;->
You could move to a GRD II (or I) a small P&S with a great lens and has something called snap mode that is great for street photography. Put a black metal CV 28mm finder on the top and you are ready to go.
I used to carry a Bessa L with a 25/4 in my hand for street stuff and while I got some looks I blended in too well. It's small and black and blended into my brief case (black on black). It was always around my wrist, never around my neck. No the L is a very light weight camera so YMMV with something heavier.
Most autofocus P&S are too slow at shooting for street work, but the snap mode on the GRD is wonderful. Several crazy folks here have them and love them. I'm not sure about the DP-1, hear good things about it, but it's way beyond my budget and I'm not sure about the lens. I have an old R1 and love the lens. The entire line of Ricoh GR/R/GRDs have world class glass that is wonderful.
Speed is important in street shooting. The more fluid you can make the motion of shooting the better off you are. When you stop to think you stand out. Get the shot and keep moving or stay there and blend in. Big zooms, flashes move the attention to you. If you blend in, the subjects attention stays elsewhere. Most of the time you do not want their attention on you, but it's a lot easier to get it to move to you than off you.
I loved my Black Bessa L with a CV 25/4 Snap-shot, it was the perfect street combo.
B2 (;->
drjoke
Well-known
Perhaps I should get the Y Strap, so I can carry my camera like those bodyguards carry guns (at their side), then wear a jacket over it.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Every time I leave the house (or truck when on the road), I have a camera with me. The usual suspects are my Kiev or Contaflex with a 50mm lens mounted. I don't tend towards strict street shooting and try to take my time - however it's always too much time if you have to go back for a camera... :bang:
William
William
urban_alchemist
Well-known
View attachment 59373
I absolutely adore my GRD-II, and use it often - the snap mode, intuitiveness of the controls, and silence of the camera is wonderful. It is also FAR smaller than my MP, even with the colapsible 50/2.8 Elmar.
There's also a specific 'feel' it gives, which I think is similar to the old pre-Asph Leica lenses - very unusual in a digital camera, let alone a P+S, and ramping the ISO up to 800 in B+W gives a surprisingly Tri-X like result...
I absolutely adore my GRD-II, and use it often - the snap mode, intuitiveness of the controls, and silence of the camera is wonderful. It is also FAR smaller than my MP, even with the colapsible 50/2.8 Elmar.
There's also a specific 'feel' it gives, which I think is similar to the old pre-Asph Leica lenses - very unusual in a digital camera, let alone a P+S, and ramping the ISO up to 800 in B+W gives a surprisingly Tri-X like result...
Shorten the strap and carry the camera slung over a shoulder, with your elbow preventing it from swinging around. Fairly inconspicuous that way, but instantly ready and not particularly sneaky. Better not to be sneaky in any case. If your friends ask about the camera, well, photos are your hobby and without a camera how could you take advantage of an unexpected photo opportunity?
maddoc
... likes film again.
Weight / size-wise, my Nikon FM with a 50/1.8 is the better everyday-carry-around camera. Unfortunately, I have problems focusing a 35mm SLR so a rangefinder camera is the better option for me.
About "stealth-mode", people who know me got used to see me carrying a camera and taking photos anytime and anywhere. They only ask me now, if either I don't carry a camera or if they assume that I bought a new one (again...).
About "stealth-mode", people who know me got used to see me carrying a camera and taking photos anytime and anywhere. They only ask me now, if either I don't carry a camera or if they assume that I bought a new one (again...).
manfromh
I'm not there
The Pentax M series SLR's are pretty small. Fitted with a pancake lens (or a m42 Industar-50 with an adapter) you could slip one in your pocket.
I havent seen a Leica M camera in person, but im sure the Pentax's are smaller, though louder.
And by the way, if your friends ask you about your big/old camera then just say that your cellphone camera is broken
I havent seen a Leica M camera in person, but im sure the Pentax's are smaller, though louder.
And by the way, if your friends ask you about your big/old camera then just say that your cellphone camera is broken
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jbf
||||||
Seriously, your worrying about things that dont even matter.
A camera is a camera is a camera. People will see it and react for the most part the same. yes there is something about being a bit more discreet with a rangefinder but ultimately it is all about just being in public taking photos with a camera.
If you are not comfortable doing it, its going to show and people are going to notice.
Take a look at Gary winogrand and Joel Merlestein(sp?)'s work. Both of them are 100% visible and close action type photography. Hardly anyone even batts an eye.
Try it some time and you will be surprised. I shoot this way ocassionally when it calls for it, and 99% of the time no one even notices or says anything.
Keep in mind you will always find smoeone who objects or perhaps gets a bit perturbed from time to time but they are few and far between and to be truthfull if they are in public view then its not your problem. Have a thick skin, but be friendly and open to people if they ask what you are doing.
A camera is a camera is a camera. People will see it and react for the most part the same. yes there is something about being a bit more discreet with a rangefinder but ultimately it is all about just being in public taking photos with a camera.
If you are not comfortable doing it, its going to show and people are going to notice.
Take a look at Gary winogrand and Joel Merlestein(sp?)'s work. Both of them are 100% visible and close action type photography. Hardly anyone even batts an eye.
Try it some time and you will be surprised. I shoot this way ocassionally when it calls for it, and 99% of the time no one even notices or says anything.
Keep in mind you will always find smoeone who objects or perhaps gets a bit perturbed from time to time but they are few and far between and to be truthfull if they are in public view then its not your problem. Have a thick skin, but be friendly and open to people if they ask what you are doing.
BillP
Rangefinder General
I searched high and low for a slim "city" type leather briefcase for work, big enough to hold a Hadley insert and a laptop. NOT a messenger bag, or anything else casual. Appearances are important in my day job and something like that would definitely send the wrong message. The case I ended up with is completely businesslike, with a detachable shoulderstrap. In it I can take my laptop, charger, a small amount of paperwork, other paraphernalia and cables, and leave the centre compartment free for a camera and a couple of lenses.
I have carried my Olympus e-400 in there, but it barely fits even with my smallest lens (the 50mm Macro) attached. On the other hand, I can carry an M-series with ease, or, as usual, my IID, with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses.
The point here is not stealth, it is appearance. I have to wear a suit, and often a tie, and engage at C-level on a regular basis. I cannot do that carrying a Crumpler, or similar.
As I have said before about stealth when shooting, it is more about you than your camera. How you dress, how you behave, and how you "fit in". Even a large camera is a small fraction of the image you present to the world.
Regards,
Bill
I have carried my Olympus e-400 in there, but it barely fits even with my smallest lens (the 50mm Macro) attached. On the other hand, I can carry an M-series with ease, or, as usual, my IID, with 35, 50 and 90mm lenses.
The point here is not stealth, it is appearance. I have to wear a suit, and often a tie, and engage at C-level on a regular basis. I cannot do that carrying a Crumpler, or similar.
As I have said before about stealth when shooting, it is more about you than your camera. How you dress, how you behave, and how you "fit in". Even a large camera is a small fraction of the image you present to the world.
Regards,
Bill
drjoke
Well-known
I completely agree with BillP. That's why a foreigner or a tourist can get by carrying the biggest cameras because that's the expected behavior.
Film dino
David Chong
Isn't Bangkok too hot for a jacket?
If I'm taking pictures in public I carry the camera openly & people generally get used to it
David
Matthew Allen
Well-known
I happen to think that's a myth about the Pentax. I have the pancake 40/2.8 and an ME Super (two actually) and although the combination will fit in some big pockets I wouldn't really call it pocketable - it's still too bulky and heavy.
The overall dimensions of the Pentax are similar to a Leica M but because of the mirror box the SLR is usually much fatter, especially if you compare it to a collapsable lens.
I don't even find my IIIa (smaller than an M don't forget) especially suitable for carrying in a pocket. Yes, it's very compact with a Summar or another compact 50 but it's so dense that I am always aware of it. I think maybe an Olympus XA is the answer...
Matthew
btgc
Veteran
I've found that scale focusing camera works as well. On the street most situations arise suddenly so anyway I mostly rely on DOF scale more than on having time to focus with RF. Well, sitting/staying in certain place and waiting for certain concidence allows to prefocus precisely.
I find RF superior to scale focus camera in low light and when subjects are static. On street anything works, even AF if one has mastered to focus as fast as prefocused MF.
I find RF superior to scale focus camera in low light and when subjects are static. On street anything works, even AF if one has mastered to focus as fast as prefocused MF.
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ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
I can focus my Pentax MX, ME or LX faster than any rangefinder I have ever owned.
And they're far less fiddly in terms of aperture and shutter speed adjustments.
I wouldn't consider carrying any of them in a pocket; they're too heavy.
But then again so are the vast majority of rangefinder cameras, too.
Chris
And they're far less fiddly in terms of aperture and shutter speed adjustments.
I wouldn't consider carrying any of them in a pocket; they're too heavy.
But then again so are the vast majority of rangefinder cameras, too.
Chris