rationale for street photography

[allthumbs]

This is not the first thread here on this subject nor will it be the last, not to mention similar discussion on other forums and other venues. Whatever else this may mean, what a testament it is to the power and importance of the camera and the still photograph, after all these years and all the technological changes since.

 

[Bertram2]

Thus if you have never published or distributed anything there is certainly less chance of someone proving an intention to publish a photo with them in it.
Kevin

Yes, that is absolutely correct. But please notice that "publish" here means the private life too.
And that means if you pass on (Weitergabe) a print or if you put it up in a internet gallery you are on very thin ice yet.
If the photographed person says "this amateur photog has 200 photos out in the web in several galleries and likely my pic will land there too but I don't want it to land there" then the judge will agree and you have lost the trial.

This is what one should know and what one should have in mind when a discussion starts on the street . At least in Germany.

Ironically this law does not allow any web cams which make pics suited to identify persons, the governement tho is allowed to put up security cams wherever it wants exactly for this purpose. They must delete the pics tho after a defined time. God solely knows if they do so.

Bertram

 

[aterlecki]

Well Germany's off my list of countries to ever visit again. Assuming what is being reported is correct, I wonder how the likes of Rene Burri feel (or the people of Germany for that matter) now that the present and future record of public social life has effectively been eliminated by such absurd legislation. There's a furore at the moment about a certain trial of a historian denying the holocaust. Won't happen in the future because history there will not be recorded to even argue about!

 

[a.black]

they are talking about videotapes being recorded, but after a certain time period they are being discarded, since the law requires it. whats that got to do with the recording of history and the holocaust conference in iran is beyond me.

 

[dadsm3]

I think a lot of the reaction one gets is the way YOU look.....I remember a mother blowing a gasket at a junior baseball tournament because a relatively weird looking individual who didn't appear to be a parent was taking pics of the players. Whether right or wrong, people's first impression of YOU, and whether they perceive you are acting surreptitiously or not will probably make the difference in there being a confrontation.
Of course, the media must bear some blame for creating the impression 6/10 people are pedophiles, and the other 4 have cameras on their shoes.
Let's face it, if you grease back your hair and wear a pencil thin mustache and hang around playgrounds you're asking for it....
As a middle aged male I personally don't give a crap if someone takes my photo....but if I don't like the looks of someone shooting my wife or kids I'm going to say something. If they're a distinguished looking RFF member who's obviously exploring his talent ( or attempting to win a contest), or a female, I almost certainly wouldn't mind, and I think most people would feel the same. Of course, there'll always be angry people out there, but they'll unload on someone with one extra item on the grocery checkout line just as quickly as they will on a street photographer. But they're just jerks, and they're everywhere.
Maybe I'm shallow, but I'm just being honest....

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I like to photograph, therefore I photograph. Rationale??

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Where can I read more about this?

The National Unenquire perhaps. 😉

 

[yossarian]

I did break one of the Cardinal Rules when I photographed a man living in a large
cardboard box. On Pennsylvania Ave., right in view of the White House. This was
1987 and Ronnie was in office. I did speak to the man briefly and told him why I
wanted the shot--hey, that's why he was where he was. I've little doubt you'd see a similar sight there ever again.
I find I'm much bolder when I am out of my own environs, and I believe this is a
common feeling. I spent the better part of a week walking all over DC, getting stuff
I could never have managed if I'd been driving, and I loved it. It wasn't until after
some of my forays that people would say "You went THERE, by yourself?!". That's
why there were no incidents; I was ignorant of any threats and showed no fear or
concern. I took my time getting certain shots, not worrying what was going on around me--most people showed little interest--so much the better.
Florida has no "real" cities, except portions of Miami, where I also got good stuff,
so it has been years since I had my last session of street shooting, and my current
situation rules out travel of any distance completely.
So once every 18 months or so I dig out the chromes from DC for another look, to
see the proof that I really shot all that stuff, some of which I'm very proud of, and
actually allow myself to say I had the talent, drive, and energy to get it done.
I don't mean for this to seem remorseful; the alternatives would be no images at all,
or worse still..."postcards".

Fred

 

[Kevin]

Well Germany's off my list of countries to ever visit again.

There are other exceptional reasons to visit Germany. Coming here is like leaving the Matrix.

 

[lubitel]

Thats a great slogan:

"Leave the Matrix! Come to Germany."

oder "Du bist Keanu Reeves" LOL

 

[Kevin]

It's much more than just a slogan tho.

You gotta live here to understand just how real that matrix is.

Of course certain people in the matrix will deny it's a matrix.

Without economic slavery these mind controllers just wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

 

[robert blu]

Interesting discussion, many different point of view. In Italy a recent law allows you to take pictures in public places like streets, but you cannot take pictures of minors, and you cannot take pictures in a mall, in a restaurant, in front of a school, in a theater or a discothec. But the pictures you take you can use only privately: you cannot post in internet, in a newspaper, in a local bulletin or in a show of your photoclub. Unless you have a written permission of people in the photo. but in recent times most of people react very bad when see you taking a picture (different in small villages ). Anyway if you ask them permission to post in internet most of people who do not refuse to be photographed will refuse it, because suspicious.
Personally I switched from street photography to "portait in the street" (may be my english not good enough, sorry) asking and explaining people why I desire to photograph them . It s different, but sometoimes works.

 

[RML]

Personally I switched from street photography to "portait in the street" (may be my english not good enough, sorry) asking and explaining people why I desire to photograph them . It s different, but sometoimes works.

How do you approach the people and what story do you tell them, Robert?

 

[robert blu]

I tried different "strategies", but the most efficent is to be very open, honest, explain that I'm just an amateur and that being near to retirement (I'm not so young...) I joined a photography school to improve my hobby and the homework of the month is people, or portrait. I found this works as people let me take their photos. But as explained yesterday if I ask them permission to post photo in internet they get suspicious and deny it. I have impresssion that the times in which we are living dictates somehow the way to interact with people. It's disturbing but I admit there could be many misuse of photo of people.

 

[RJBender]

That's good advice. Someone with a camera can never be invisible. But that can't stop you from acting invisible. I've found its useful to interact with people, even if you can't speak their language. The trick is to have good enough timing to get the shot first, then do the interacting afterward. I've also done a fair amount of photography in Muslim countries, where some people have a genuine concern about being photographed. I always respect their wishes not to use the photograph. But I've usually already taken it. If they tell me not to take or use their photo, I respond respectfully and graceously, usually nodding my head while dropping the camera to my side. That always has seemed to suffice.

In 25-odd years of photojournalism, the only time I was every really accosted for street-type photography was when I took a photo with a 105mm lens of a young woman walking through a crowd. She was a "living statue" performance artist and so was painted to look like a white marble statue. But she had just finished work for the day and was walking home in gorgeous evening sunlight. After I'd taken the photos, she realized what had happened and she just lit into me about how disrespectful it was to take a picture of her when she wasn't actually performing. I was so astounded by this reaction from a street peformer that I was overwhelmed by the utter ridiculousness of the situation and said nothing, in part for fear of laughing. The marble-statue lady vented for about a minute, and then we parted ways. It wasn't even a very good picture. The 105 was too tight for the scene.

Was this "statue" wearing anything?

R.J.

 

[Vagabond]

In Italy a recent law allows you to take pictures in public places like streets, but you cannot take pictures of minors, and you cannot take pictures in a mall, in a restaurant, in front of a school, in a theater or a discothec.

That's good to know. I'll be going back to Italy, this time to see the southern part of the country. Basically from Naploli down through Sicily. I hope to bring two bodies, one for black and white street photography and another with color for the tourist shots.

Bill

 

[RJBender]

Kevin,

the laws are really not the decisive point in this context, but if you want to know what the law is here in Germany this may help:
German law and it's practical orientation. As you see there are no clear rights for the photog. It follows an EU guideline which came into force 2004.
There is no right to shoot any people in public places, rather 100 open doors to an expensive experience when it comes to a trial, as the bold parts of the text prove.


The whole article @ http://www.sakowski.de/skripte/eig_bild.html

2. Grundsätze (Auszug)

a) Schutzbereich

Das Recht am eigenen Bild ist eine spezielle Ausprägung des allgemeinen Persönlichkeitsrechts (Art. 1 und 2 GG). Nur in bezug auf diesen persönlichkeitsrechtlichen Hintergrund hat es etwas mit Urheberrecht zu tun. Üblicherweise wird aber zwischen Urheberrecht und Recht am eigenen Bild aufgrund der unterschiedlichen Zielrichtung unterschieden.

Der Schutzbereich erstreckt sich nach § 22 S. 1 nicht auf das Herstellen von Bildnissen, sondern nur auf deren Verbreitung und öffentliche Zurschaustellung. Heute ist aber anerkannt, dass auch eine Vorverlagerung des Rechtsschutzes auf den Zeitpunkt des Herstellens von Aufnahmen nach dem allgemeinen Persönlichkeitsrecht geschützt sein kann. Das ist zumindest dann der Fall, wenn dies in der Absicht einer Veröffentlichung geschieht. Der Begriff des "Verbreitens" ist weiter als der entsprechende Begriff im Urheberrecht. Er betrifft zum Beispiel auch die Weitergabe eines Fotos im privaten Bereich.

Geschützt ist nicht das Foto als solches (Fotomaterial), sondern die äußere Erscheinung des Abgebildeten als Ausdruck seines Wesens und seiner Persönlichkeit. Andere sollen seine Bildnisse nicht beliebig verwenden, insbesondere auch nicht kommerziell ausnutzen dürfen.

3. Ausnahmen: (Auszug)
c) Personen als "Beiwerk"
Zulässig ist die zustimmungsfreie Ablichtung von Personen als Beiwerk neben einer Landschaft oder Örtlichkeit. Die Person darf nicht Zweck der Aufnahme sein.

Bertram,

Two photographers took photos of Otto von Bismarck as he lay dying and published the photos in 1898. Everyone got so pissed off the German government passed a law. Is that how this all started?

So how do journalists photograph events on the street for publication in newspapers? Just curious.

R.J.

 

[robert blu]

Vagabond,
people in south Italy are more open than in north. I have no personal experience of photographing there, but friends of mine took workshop for street photography in Naple and I heard was very good. which month are you planning to go? In sicily in summer can be hot !

 

[RJBender]

I think a lot of the reaction one gets is the way YOU look.....I remember a mother blowing a gasket at a junior baseball tournament because a relatively weird looking individual who didn't appear to be a parent was taking pics of the players. Whether right or wrong, people's first impression of YOU, and whether they perceive you are acting surreptitiously or not will probably make the difference in there being a confrontation.
Of course, the media must bear some blame for creating the impression 6/10 people are pedophiles, and the other 4 have cameras on their shoes.
Let's face it, if you grease back your hair and wear a pencil thin mustache and hang around playgrounds you're asking for it....
As a middle aged male I personally don't give a crap if someone takes my photo....but if I don't like the looks of someone shooting my wife or kids I'm going to say something. If they're a distinguished looking RFF member who's obviously exploring his talent ( or attempting to win a contest), or a female, I almost certainly wouldn't mind, and I think most people would feel the same. Of course, there'll always be angry people out there, but they'll unload on someone with one extra item on the grocery checkout line just as quickly as they will on a street photographer. But they're just jerks, and they're everywhere.
Maybe I'm shallow, but I'm just being honest....

If the photographer has to explain his or her intent before taking the shot, the decisive moment has already passed.

So if someone looks creepy to you, you assume their motives for taking the photographs are also creepy.

If someone looks creepy but he has press credentials, does that change your attitude towards him?


R.J.

 

[Vagabond]

Vagabond,
people in south Italy are more open than in north. I have no personal experience of photographing there, but friends of mine took workshop for street photography in Naple and I heard was very good. which month are you planning to go? In sicily in summer can be hot !

Thank you for the reply. We are going in the middle of May with a group from the university where my wife works. We will fly to Rome and very briefly see Sorrento, Capri, Taormina Region, Palermo, overnight ferry to Napoli, Amalfi Coast, Pompeii, back to Rome. All in about 10 days. I'll try not to sleep at all.