nrb
Nuno Borges
:angel: Any rumours about a full frame Epson RD2 to make the most of all M glass ?
Huck Finn
Well-known
There are rumors of an R-D2, but not full frame. I think that one is a slow train comin'.
Huck
Huck
Frank Dernie
Member
seems unlikely
seems unlikely
Leica originally said a digital M would not be made pointing out that the wide angle lenses for rangefinders, which are so superior and uncompromised for film were unsuited to digital sensors. Demand has forced their hand but the projected digital M reportedly has a smaller sensor than 35mm film, presumably so the full extent of the lens incompatibility is not shown. Better a smaller sensor and compensation than severe critiscism of the edge performance due to a known issue?
There is noticeable vignetting - correctable to an extent in the computer - even with the RD1
seems unlikely
Leica originally said a digital M would not be made pointing out that the wide angle lenses for rangefinders, which are so superior and uncompromised for film were unsuited to digital sensors. Demand has forced their hand but the projected digital M reportedly has a smaller sensor than 35mm film, presumably so the full extent of the lens incompatibility is not shown. Better a smaller sensor and compensation than severe critiscism of the edge performance due to a known issue?
There is noticeable vignetting - correctable to an extent in the computer - even with the RD1
nrb
Nuno Borges
I made a search of pictures taken on a RD1 with old screw mount lenses and could not detect a hint of vignetting. Curious!
ZeissFan
Veteran
That's because the RD-1 has a fairly significant crop, so most of the vignetting that might occur falls outside of what's captured by the sensor. Once you stop down a bit, vignetting is mitigated to a degree. What would be more telling is trying to use those same wide angles on a full-frame and wide open.
I still think Leica should pursue a dual sensor approach: a digital crop for legacy lenses and a full-frame sensor for longer lenses. And at the same time, develop a new line of lenses that are compatible with film and digital.
I still think Leica should pursue a dual sensor approach: a digital crop for legacy lenses and a full-frame sensor for longer lenses. And at the same time, develop a new line of lenses that are compatible with film and digital.
Huck Finn
Well-known
ZeissFan said:
What a great idea, Mike. Very creative. I haven't heard that mentioned anywhere else! Have you forwarded your thinking to Leica . . . or Zeiss? If you brush up on your German, maybe there's a position waiting for you with one of them.
Huck
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Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I know that R2-D2 came out back in 1977 ... or a long, long time ago ...
sorry, couldn't resist
sorry, couldn't resist
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Once again- what is all the fuss about 35 mm sensors?
As long as there is one new sensor-size compatible extra WA lens offered to compensate for the "loss" at the wide end , it is just a matter of trading in your longest lens -provided the sensor quality is good. Everybody seems to be perfectly happy using 35 mm film, even if 645 or larger does give much better results..... And amongst users of that format I never heard anybody complain that their wideangle had a focal length of say 45 mm.
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vincenzo
Established
I Spoke With The Rd-1 Product Manager In The Uk Today And Asked About The Rd-2 Or Whether There Will Be One.
I Would Probably Plump For A Rd-2 Over A Digital Lecia M If There Was One In The Pipeline But He Said There Were No Plans For An Rd-2 Release In The Near Future, So Don't Hold Your Breath. This Guy Is Probably Not Really In The Know Anyway Since Only Sources In Japan Would Know Whats Really Going On I Guess. Anyway We Will Just Have To Wait And See.
It Would Appear That The Next Digirangefinder Will Indeed Be The Leica M So Start Saving Guys. About $5000
I Would Probably Plump For A Rd-2 Over A Digital Lecia M If There Was One In The Pipeline But He Said There Were No Plans For An Rd-2 Release In The Near Future, So Don't Hold Your Breath. This Guy Is Probably Not Really In The Know Anyway Since Only Sources In Japan Would Know Whats Really Going On I Guess. Anyway We Will Just Have To Wait And See.
It Would Appear That The Next Digirangefinder Will Indeed Be The Leica M So Start Saving Guys. About $5000
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
jaapv said:Once again- what is all the fuss about 35 mm sensors?
I think the only fuss about full frame 35mm sensors is not having to invest in all new and expensive wide angle lenses. That is the problem for me with Nikon.
Bob
S
Sean Reid
Guest
And with any luck, worth $5000.
Cheers,
Sean
Cheers,
Sean
R
RML
Guest
Nikon Bob said:
We invest all the time in "new" lenses. What's the problem with doing that for a new form factor? When going from a Hassy to Leica one would also need to invest in new/old new lenses. And when we're talking expensive... when was a 12 or 15mm cheaper than nowadays? Exactly, never.
N
Nikon Bob
Guest
RML said:
When you look at it as moving to a different format then OK it sort of makes sense. I guess Leica 12 or 15 mm are as cheap today as ever. That is not CV bashing, I really like my 21/F4. The point is that it is an extra expense for no real gain or loss in image quality or size of equipment. When you move to a Hassey you gain, not only, a larger format with improved image quality but also a size and weight increase as well. Some users accept this and some do not.
Bob
J. Borger
Well-known
To tell you the truth one new Leica digital lens is already in the make.
It is the NEW 35 summicron-asph D.
It has exactly the same characteristics as the awesome 28 summicron asph and behaves just like that lens on a future full frame sensor and if used with a film camera.
List-price is rumoured 500$ above the price of the current 28mm Summicron ASPH.
I was told that is about the costprice for repainting, rebranding and adjusting the scale values on a batch of available lenses in Germany.
But please keep all in mind: if the new 35 Summicron D will be used with a full frame sensor in the future or a film camera now .... the dof scale is not 100% reliable: because the lens behaves like a 28 mm.
Han
It is the NEW 35 summicron-asph D.
It has exactly the same characteristics as the awesome 28 summicron asph and behaves just like that lens on a future full frame sensor and if used with a film camera.
List-price is rumoured 500$ above the price of the current 28mm Summicron ASPH.
I was told that is about the costprice for repainting, rebranding and adjusting the scale values on a batch of available lenses in Germany.
But please keep all in mind: if the new 35 Summicron D will be used with a full frame sensor in the future or a film camera now .... the dof scale is not 100% reliable: because the lens behaves like a 28 mm.
Han
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N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Han
I just woke up and am a little slow (normal for me). Are you saying that a new 35mm Leica digital lens will be the current 28mm dressed up as a 35mm digital? If that is true and you are using film with an eye to later getting a digital M mount camera body, why not buy the 28 and save some money? Sorry to be so way OT. What ever happens with future RD2 bodies or for that matter any M mount RF body will be interseting.
Bob
I just woke up and am a little slow (normal for me). Are you saying that a new 35mm Leica digital lens will be the current 28mm dressed up as a 35mm digital? If that is true and you are using film with an eye to later getting a digital M mount camera body, why not buy the 28 and save some money? Sorry to be so way OT. What ever happens with future RD2 bodies or for that matter any M mount RF body will be interseting.
Bob
J. Borger
Well-known
Hi Bob,
Good morning .... good to read you got my point about "Digital lenses".
It is my view on the "full frame discussions" that always seem to come up when discussing a digital M, RD2 or whatever.
My sole point is that unless you are a real wide shooter (wider than 28mm) the lenses are there. And they all perform very well with the current R-D1. And i expect them to work very well with a 1,3 crop too.
The Zeiss lenses are hyped to be "Digital Ready" ... ready for what? ... who tells so ?
Canon managed to sell a lot of "digital lenses" as does Nikon after first selling the normal analog lenses... are we waiting for those strategies?? I sure hope not!
Perhaps Leica can make 1 lens wider than 21mm to satisfy the ultra wide guys.
But assuming most people shoot a rangefinder with lenses in the 28-90 mm range. The lens line up is there ....... 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 75mm (or 50mm if you prefer a 75 lens on film).
Perhaps the 75 mm summicron was the first lens made with digital in mind .... it just was not marketed that way.
Life is full of compromises. If you use a Hasselblad and mount a digital back on it there is also a crop factor !
BTW: the 35mm pre-asph lux is a very fine performer on the R-D1: thanks!
Han
Good morning .... good to read you got my point about "Digital lenses".
It is my view on the "full frame discussions" that always seem to come up when discussing a digital M, RD2 or whatever.
My sole point is that unless you are a real wide shooter (wider than 28mm) the lenses are there. And they all perform very well with the current R-D1. And i expect them to work very well with a 1,3 crop too.
The Zeiss lenses are hyped to be "Digital Ready" ... ready for what? ... who tells so ?
Canon managed to sell a lot of "digital lenses" as does Nikon after first selling the normal analog lenses... are we waiting for those strategies?? I sure hope not!
Perhaps Leica can make 1 lens wider than 21mm to satisfy the ultra wide guys.
But assuming most people shoot a rangefinder with lenses in the 28-90 mm range. The lens line up is there ....... 21mm, 28mm, 35mm, 75mm (or 50mm if you prefer a 75 lens on film).
Perhaps the 75 mm summicron was the first lens made with digital in mind .... it just was not marketed that way.
Life is full of compromises. If you use a Hasselblad and mount a digital back on it there is also a crop factor !
BTW: the 35mm pre-asph lux is a very fine performer on the R-D1: thanks!
Han
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nrb
Nuno Borges
If one ponders the Canon full frame sensors, one is inclined to think that sooner rather than later full frame sensors will be the norm. And at that time most of our present equipment will be obsolete, very much to great happiness of the major photographic equipment producers.
J. Borger
Well-known
Yes .. i can imagine that nrb.
Digital gear costs a lot of money and it hurts to see it loose value in a short period of time.
I own a Canon 1Ds myself (which i hardly use since using the R-D1) and never found the cropfactor of the R-D1 limiting.
I bought the 1Ds new for almost Euro 8000 ..... if i had to sell it now it would probably bring me Euro 3000 at the most.
Yes ... it was considered the end of the line at that time... enough MP to beat Medium Format, Full frame ... bla bla bla
The Canon 5D is probably a great camera but ... it wil be obsolete too within a year.
Ôtherwise it would have been very stupid from Canon to introduce it.
The 6D will be 16MP
The 7D will probably have image stabilation in camera
The 8D Super clean Iso 1280000 performance .... and so on.
Not to mention the 8D will be 1/3 of the price of the 5D.
Along the line Canon will redisgn the lenses for better digital performance .... probably changing the Eos mount .....
The curent R-D1, Digital M, Digital Zeiss, R-D2 on the other hand let you mount all the great lenses from the past ...... all with their own character and signature. Now that's something hard to beat.......
For me it is more important there are other digital rangefinders after the R-D1..... and i will live with any cropfactor if that means the current lenses .... and those from the past .... perform like they were intended to. A Digital M would loose its attraction to me if it needed new "Digital lenses" to perform. If that means a cropfactor .. so be it!
Han
Digital gear costs a lot of money and it hurts to see it loose value in a short period of time.
I own a Canon 1Ds myself (which i hardly use since using the R-D1) and never found the cropfactor of the R-D1 limiting.
I bought the 1Ds new for almost Euro 8000 ..... if i had to sell it now it would probably bring me Euro 3000 at the most.
Yes ... it was considered the end of the line at that time... enough MP to beat Medium Format, Full frame ... bla bla bla
The Canon 5D is probably a great camera but ... it wil be obsolete too within a year.
Ôtherwise it would have been very stupid from Canon to introduce it.
The 6D will be 16MP
The 7D will probably have image stabilation in camera
The 8D Super clean Iso 1280000 performance .... and so on.
Not to mention the 8D will be 1/3 of the price of the 5D.
Along the line Canon will redisgn the lenses for better digital performance .... probably changing the Eos mount .....
The curent R-D1, Digital M, Digital Zeiss, R-D2 on the other hand let you mount all the great lenses from the past ...... all with their own character and signature. Now that's something hard to beat.......
For me it is more important there are other digital rangefinders after the R-D1..... and i will live with any cropfactor if that means the current lenses .... and those from the past .... perform like they were intended to. A Digital M would loose its attraction to me if it needed new "Digital lenses" to perform. If that means a cropfactor .. so be it!
Han
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N
Nikon Bob
Guest
Han
The the crop factor is a problem for me as I like wider than 28mm. As RML pointed out you can use CV lenses to correct that. Still there is an extra cost no matter how you look at it.
Bob
The the crop factor is a problem for me as I like wider than 28mm. As RML pointed out you can use CV lenses to correct that. Still there is an extra cost no matter how you look at it.
Bob
C
ch1
Guest
Nikon Bob said:
And I think they're getting there. Although the new D200will not have a full frame sensor - it's fully backward compatability to all Nikkor SLR lenses is an important acknowledgement that Nikon is first and foremost an optics company.
Problem is, of course, do you "spring" the $1700 for a D200 and then face the possibility of a full frame Dxxx in a year or two wiping out your investment?