Re.using fixer

[Joao]

Hello
Will any of you be able to give me an answer ?
I use Ilford Rapid Fixer in the recommended dilution for films. Always did it without problems and I recover and keep the used fixer until it is not able to clear a piece of film. The recovered diluted fixer is cristal clear

Recently I found that the fixer leaves a dark deposit in the plastic bottles where I keep it. I changed for glass bottles and there is a thin layer of silver (or someting that looks like it) adherent to the glass. If vigourously shaken, it breaks in some parts. The liquid inside remains clear

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I started printing photos recently and this happened with fixer re-used in fixing film and prints (Ilford ) – not sure if it happenned always but I am certain it happened a few times.
Questions : can I re-use fixer for film after fixing prints ?? Or should I discard the fixer after fixing prints ?? Any explanation for these silver (?) deposits inside the bottle ?
Thank you for your opinions
Joao

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Don't fix prints in fixer that has already been used to fix film, use only fresh fixer for prints. Also do not reuse fixer used previously for printing. An 8x10 print has almost as much silver in it as a roll of film, so the fixer will be nearly exhausted after you have done a batch of prints in it.

 

[Freakscene]

Fixer is exhausted not when it will not clear anymore - it is exhausted when the clearing time doubles relative to fresh http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/fixer exhaustion.html or it contains 6g/l silver for film or 2g/l for fibre base paper. You can check with Hypo Chek or Silver Estimating strips. Your fixer is overloaded with silver. What fixer does is:
AgX + 2 S2O32− → [Ag(S2O3)2]3− + X−
AgX + 3 S2O32− → [Ag(S2O3)3]5− + X−
where X is a halide. Once the fixer is overloaded, other processes occur, such as reduction and sulfur precipitation. These can occur with age, irrespective of use. Thiosulfates are stable only in neutral or alkaline solutions, but not in acidic solutions, due to decomposition to sulfite and sulfur, the sulfite eventually being dehydrated to sulfur dioxide:
S2O32− (aq) + 2 H+ (aq) → SO2 (g) + S (s) + H2O
Once the thiosulfate concentration drops, the fixer cannot hold as much silver. This normally isn’t a problem. But once it is as overloaded as yours is, however, the silver precipitates out. Precipitation usually needs a matrix, so it ‘plates out’ on the bottle. Basically you accidentally made a mirror.

Marty

 

[BillBingham2]

Don't fix prints in fixer that has already been used to fix film, use only fresh fixer for prints. Also do not reuse fixer used previously for printing. An 8x10 print has almost as much silver in it as a roll of film, so the fixer will be nearly exhausted after you have done a batch of prints in it.

+1

One of the challenges with trying to squeak every last ML of magic out of fixer is that you won't know until it's too late.

B2 (;-

 

[Joao]

Thank you all.
I am grateful for the informative answers.
Best regards
Joao

 

[Rob-F]

I use hypo check religiously, and dump the fixer when the hypo check causes a white precipitate.

"When in doubt, throw it out." (applies to developer, too.)

 

[zuiko85]

Take care with fixer. Locally we have a ‘hazo house’ and used fixer is one the chemicals They want brought there. You cannot dump it down a drain.

 

[BillBingham2]

Take care with fixer. Locally we have a ‘hazo house’ and used fixer is one the chemicals They want brought there. You cannot dump it down a drain.

I always wonder about photographers who have a septic at home vs connected to a city sewer system do. Any one out there know?

B2 (;->

 

[Bill Clark]

I believe we’d all would be surprised of all the liquids that get poured down the drain. And then there are the products that get put into garbage.

We do have recycling here now.

Here in Minneapolis, the sewer processing facility, located in south St. Paul processes about 225 to 250 million gallons each day, all year round.

Our daughter lives in Los Angeles and they have, in the LA basin, about 10,000 miles of sewer lines. Much more sewer water is processed each day than here in Minneapolis.

At any rate, we need to understand everything we buy and use has a disposal price. How many printer ink jet containers are thrown in the trash? Or empty laser printer toner containers? Or the items you have under your kitchen sink that get used. Out of sight, out of mind.

Tons of stuff.

Try to consume less!

 

[titrisol]

Your fixer is depositing silver in the bottle walls, I had never seen it like a mirror!!!
That means your fixer is probably saturated and you need fresh fixer

Fixer is cheap, I now dump it after every session to avoid having a high load of silver and to maintain consistency.

PS. When tree roots broke the septic system tank, the solution the plumbers used was a silver-thiosulfate liquid

Hello
Will any of you be able to give me an answer ?
I use Ilford Rapid Fixer in the recommended dilution for films. Always did it without problems and I recover and keep the used fixer until it is not able to clear a piece of film. The recovered diluted fixer is cristal clear

Recently I found that the fixer leaves a dark deposit in the plastic bottles where I keep it. I changed for glass bottles and there is a thin layer of silver (or someting that looks like it) adherent to the glass. If vigourously shaken, it breaks in some parts. The liquid inside remains clear

[/URL][/IMG]

I started printing photos recently and this happened with fixer re-used in fixing film and prints (Ilford ) – not sure if it happenned always but I am certain it happened a few times.
Questions : can I re-use fixer for film after fixing prints ?? Or should I discard the fixer after fixing prints ?? Any explanation for these silver (?) deposits inside the bottle ?
Thank you for your opinions
Joao

 

[presspass]

I do reuse fixer - Sprint - in a Nova paper slot processor and discard once the stop bath, also Sprint, starts to turn color. Sprint says, and years of use seems to back them up, that those two chemicals exhaust at the same rate. The slot processor holds less than two liters of stop bath and more than two liters of fixer. BTW, this is for RC prints. I also reuse film fixer for a specified number of rolls. Been doing it this way, although not always with Sprint, since the mid-1970s and only had one set of negs that had to be refined. Same with prints. But as was said earlier, if in doubt, throw it out, but safely.

 

[Joao]

Your fixer is depositing silver in the bottle walls, I had never seen it like a mirror!!!

The question that comes to my mind is if this effect can be used to re-silver prisms from SLRs or mirrors from TLRs.

Not that I am willing to do it...

Regards

Joao

 

[Freakscene]

The question that comes to my mind is if this effect can be used to re-silver prisms from SLRs or mirrors from TLRs.

Not that I am willing to do it...

You can’t get chemically or electrolytically deposited silver even or consistently thin enough for this purpose. You really need to sputter coat the surfaces.

Marty

 

[giganova]

Fixer is cheap, I now dump it after every session to avoid having a high load of silver and to maintain consistency.

😱 What a waste of resources & money and impact on the environment! Do you also throw away your razor blades after you used them?

You don't even have to dump your developer after each film development session. "One shot developer" only means that you have to use it in one session. When I develop film I load three tanks with film and successively develop all three batches of film with the same developer. Never had any problem with that and the results are 100% consistent. Saves me a ton of chemicals and is easier on the environment and my wallet.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

😱 What a waste of resources & money and impact on the environment! Do you also throw away your razor blades after you used them?

You don't even have to dump your developer after each film development session. "One shot developer" only means that you have to use it in one session. When I develop film I load three tanks with film and successively develop all three batches of film with the same developer. Never had any problem with that and the results are 100% consistent. Saves me a ton of chemicals and is easier on the environment and my wallet.

Some developers can be reused a certain number of times (undiluted D-76, Tmax Developer at the 1+4 dilution) while others should NEVER, EVER be reused (Rodinal, PMK).

 

[giganova]

Some developers can be reused a certain number of times (undiluted D-76, Tmax Developer at the 1+4 dilution) while others should NEVER, EVER be reused (Rodinal, PMK).

Thanks for your expertise, Chris! I am only using DD-X and that seems to work fine.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Thanks for your expertise, Chris! I am only using DD-X and that seems to work fine.

DDX is a lot like Tmax Developer in its working qualities, though the developing times are different. They're both high-energy developers that have more capacity than the amount of film that will fit in a developing tank, which is why they can be reused. That's when used in their normal 1+4 dilutions. You can actually dilute them more (1+7 dilution gives wonderful results) but should not be reused if you do that.

I usually use Tmax at 1+7 one-shot because the results should be more consistent than reusing the more concentrated 1+4, while giving about the same cost savings. Also allows longer developing times. With some films, Tmax Developer 1+4 gives very short times that increase chances of uneven developing.

For most films, the correct developing time for the 1+7 dilution for either Tmax or DDX can be calculated by taking the 1+4 time and multiplying it by 1.5 (so if the normal time is 6 minutes, you would use 6 x 1.5 = 9 minutes for the 1+7 dilution).

Really dilute developers like Rodinal and PMK are relatively weak, so they're nearly exhausted by the time one batch of film has gone through them.

 

[giganova]

Chris, when using the same developer multiple times, do you recommend adding extra development time? I add an extra ~10% for each subsequent batch and seem to be getting very consistent results. So for a batch of FP-4 in DDX at 68F and inversion, I use the standard 9 min, then 10 min for second batch and 11 min for the third batch. All negatives look perfect.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Film and paper development chemicals are temporary -- prints and film are forever, or at least for the next 100 years. So don't obsess about wringing every print or exposure from your fixer. Fix well, and discard.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris, when using the same developer multiple times, do you recommend adding extra development time? I add an extra ~10% for each subsequent batch and seem to be getting very consistent results. So for a batch of FP-4 in DDX at 68F and inversion, I use the standard 9 min, then 10 min for second batch and 11 min for the third batch. All negatives look perfect.

I would, as a starting point, do whatever the manufacturer's directions say. For Tmax Developer, Kodak says a gallon of it diluted 1+4 can process 16 rolls of film with no compensation. If you process 17-32 rolls, add 1 minute to the developing time. For processing 33-48 rolls, add two minutes. That recommendation seems strange, one would think a percentage increase would be more accurate?


If your 10% per roll system works, I'd stay with it 🙂