Really close to my first M body

[Steve_F]

Hi all,
I'm finally flogging some of my 35mm Nikon film gear to enter into the M system.
The choice of M4-P, M6, M7 or MP (drool) is going to be dictated by price.
Likely to be a cheaper one to begin with, and 50 Summicron (newer type)
What do you folks think to this.......

http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/prod...=1578&osCsid=e978cc48b2e502ae55b68157935f2ad0


Thanks,

Steve.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Steve,

Leave it to a collector. The asterisk bungs up the price and brings no extra functionality.

If you can even begin to afford it, the MP will save time and money in the long run, because you won't have to trade it in.

Or you might persuade me to sell you a VERY well-worn (instant credibility!) M4-P, one owner for 30 years or thereabouts....

Cheers,

R.

 

[Photon42]

I can't really comment on M4 prices - never really cared and I don't know the small differences between the various M4 models.
Are you sure you want a camera w/o a light meter? That may be perfectly meaningful, of course. The list of bodies you mention have quite a variation when it comes to light metering. What's about a M6? It has all six frame lines, and a light meter. You can still remove the batteries and pretend it's a M4 😎

 

[Chris101]

That one is a bit steep. The M4-P is really made for a wide angle anyway. 35mm is ideal for it's viewfinder, and even 28mm works fine. Its 50mm lines look kinda small to me.

I do rather like, however, not having the meter in the camera.

 

[Fraser]

spend a bit less and get M2 or M3 spend a bit more and get a M6. Just my thoughts.

 

[roundg]

spend a bit less and get M2 or M3 spend a bit more and get a M6. Just my thoughts.

Agree. My suggestion is to get a M6 for the build in meter, especially considering it's ur first M.

 

[Steve_F]

Dear All,
Thanks for the useful advice & replies. (This really is the best forum out there).
In an ideal world I would be able to afford an MP.
The way I see it is:
M4-P : Cheap affordable way into the M system. Currently own a handheld meter.
M6 :Built-in meter but purely mechanical if necessary. -Reality - Sensible and fairly affordable option.
M7 :Built-in meter and Ap. priority (What if become lazy and want to point and shoot!)- but the reality is I never just leave it to the meter. Always have a guess first and adjust as I see fit on my Nikon FM3A with its meter.
MP - Pipe dream - One day though.

Thanks,

Any other thoughts are of course always welcome.

Steve.

 

[RFluhver]

Agree. My suggestion is to get a M6 for the build in meter, especially considering it's ur first M.

I took the opposing approach when entering into the M system. As far as I was concerned, there was only one way to do it properly: the old fashioned way. No meter! So an M2 it was.

As for questions on focusing and exposure, I am doing my best to learn "sunny 16", zone focusing and hyperfocusing.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I took the opposing approach when entering into the M system. As far as I was concerned, there was only one way to do it properly: the old fashioned way. No meter!

Why?

If you want to be old fashioned for the sake of being old-fashioned, what's wrong with quarter plate (3-1/4 x 4-1/4 inch) instead of faffing around with postage-stamp sized formats?

I never owned a metered Leica until the MP. That was because when I started (with a II in 1969), Leicas didn't have meters, and it wasn't until the MP that I could see the point of replacing (or rather, supplementing) the M4-P I bought in the early 80s (I never did like the M5). But there's no inherent merit in having no meter. How could there be?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Steve_F]

I am doing my best to learn "sunny 16", zone focusing and hyperfocusing.

I find I use the 'sunny 11 rule' for 100 speed film here in the UK - when the bl**dy sun comes out!
I found that at 1/125 @ F16 kept in the highlights but didn't allow for any reflectance off bright subjects, such as white walls etc, and shadows blocked up completely. So with 1/125 @ F11 the true burnt out highlights become specular, bright subjects with bright light on them are truly bright and shadows open up.

Just a thought.

Steve.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I find I use the 'sunny 11 rule' for 100 speed film here in the UK - when the bl**dy sun comes out!
I found that at 1/125 @ F16 kept in the highlights but didn't allow for any reflectance off bright subjects, such as white walls etc, and shadows blocked up completely. So with 1/125 @ F11 the true burnt out highlights become specular, bright subjects with bright light on them are truly bright and shadows open up.

Just a thought.

Steve.

Dear Steve,

I completely agree: sunny 11-1/2 at best.

As for hyperfocal distance (not your post), it seems perverse to me to buy the finest RF cameras in the world and then not use the RF.

Cheers,

R.

 

[BobPS]

I would suggest an M6, that way you have a built-in meter and can leave your handheld meter home😀 Anyway, I was in your position once, and I bought an M6.

IMO, an M7 won't make you lazy, you can still use it in manual mode and only use the AE in certain situation where an AE is needed. When or if I buy another M film camera, it will be an M7 for its AE mode because there are times when shooting in manual just too difficult or too slow, like in situations where the light changes quickly.

Bob

 

[Steve_F]

Dear Bob,
Thanks for that suggestion. This is what I find myself up against (in my own mind).
Hmmmm.

Steve. ;-)

 

[chrishayton]

I have an M4-p which I paid 350 for in very good condition except from a bit of vulcanite missing which I just replaced with griptac) I like the viewfinder with no lights and its as though its just a tool for composing and focusing which is nice and a change from all the info in a DSLR finder.
I currently use a handheld meter and always have great exposures however its a faff carrying it and taking out of the pocket all the time, so just bought a black mr-4 meter off ebay that should speed things up slightly.

Id still go with unmetered leicas if i had a choice due to the clear finder but maybe pick up a vcII (i tried but im not paying £195 for one and rare 2nd hand, vs £50 for the mr4) to clip on top. Its also easier to ignore the meter that way

Theres also a premium on the m6 over the m4-p for the meter which apart from that its essentially the same camera

As your in the uk check out real camera company in manchester, brilliant cameras and prices and excellent service, Check their website for info and ring them to see what stock they have. They are all leica fans so will give you honest and knowledgeable advice.

 

[35mmdelux]

Theres also a premium on the m6 over the m4-p for the meter which apart from that its essentially the same camera

Point well made. Still, I prefer the integrated meter, hence my M7/MP. Speeds things up ALOT. I use handheld meter for portraits mostly.

 

[Turtle]

I prefer an integrated meter too and think they help shooters work quickly, when they are not experts in using the Mk I Eyeball Meter. Hand helds are great for some tasks but are not as quick as n integral meter if you are not in the same light as your subject. Reflected is useful but not always that quick to interpret.

My advice, if money is an issue, is a late model 0.72 M6 classic. Good prices, good build, low mileage for many and a classic camera. Although the MP feels a touch heavier and you get better finishes, the M6 is a great shooter.

I will recommend you persevere with Red dot. I have dealt with Ivor a fair amount and he has some used bodies in for good prices, but not on everything. You should be able to get a E++/mint classic for 699/750 from him. He gives a full 6 month warranty and does not bleat if there are issues. I will always drop in when I am in London! If you let him know what you want he might let you know when he has it in.

 

[maddoc]

I use my M7 mostly in AE mode (daytime) and with an external meter (night time) or the M4-P with either the MR-4 or Seconic L208. Except for the M5 with the speed indicator in the VF and large shutter dial, I can't see any advantage of the TTL metering (except for filter or TTL-flash).

 

[Jaans]

Why?

If you want to be old fashioned for the sake of being old-fashioned, what's wrong with quarter plate (3-1/4 x 4-1/4 inch) instead of faffing around with postage-stamp sized formats?

I never owned a metered Leica until the MP. That was because when I started (with a II in 1969), Leicas didn't have meters, and it wasn't until the MP that I could see the point of replacing (or rather, supplementing) the M4-P I bought in the early 80s (I never did like the M5). But there's no inherent merit in having no meter. How could there be?

Cheers,

R.

Respectfully disagree. I learnt to shoot first with a Leica IIIC that was of course unmetered and I didn't get any additional lightmeter like a VC or sekonic. Then I moved onto a Leica M2 - a great camera that I picked up at a fraction for the price of a metered M6/M7/MP. It is actually one of the best ways to learn to shoot.

Traded those for a CLE, damaged that then I got a Leica M6. I found that I was making better exposures with my M2 than with the CLE/M6. It forces you to concentrate. The M2 is a great camera.

See Mr Hicks, your posts in this thread are contradictory and I don't understand why you would want to sell the original author your M4P as that runs contrary to everything that you have said above. Because, the M4P is one of those in-between M cameras, unmetered, but lacking the classical finish and super smooth mechanics of the earlier M3, M2, M4.

Following your philosophy, if you are going to be old fashioned for the sake of old fashioned, then 'one' would make sure you do it properly, with one of the three original earlier Ms, not that displaced brother that you were trying unload to the OP.

If you are going to shoot a classic camera, don't pull up short with the unmetered M4P when you could find a good user unmetered M3,M2,M4 and stroke some history in the bargain. My advice would be to get one of these three or an M6 classic. You can later upgrade to an MP if you feel the urge.

 

[thomasw_]

OP:>

If you going to start building your M kit with a 50mm lens, which is a great way to roll, then I'd recommend a M3 to start. There is no better viewfinder in the M system for a 50. I shoot with a MP 0.85x and it is a superb VF, but it is a VF allowing the 35 brightlines, and so it is just a tiny bit of a compromise in magnification for the 50/75 and longer FLs. The M3 is as good as it gets for shooting a 50, especially in low light.

Whether metered or not, choose the best VF for your use; that will determine which M to obtain.

 

[aizan]

i would take the opportunity to pick up an m4 or mp for the lowest prices we've seen in several years.