Received damaged Cron, advice?

[Bassism]

Hello all,
I recently purchased a DR Summicron on ebay and got a good price on it. Here is a link to the auction: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=190281197974

I just received the lens now, and it's certainly not what I would call in "very good" condition. There is a ring immediately behind the aperture that is floating around loose inside the lens.

There was no mention of this in the listing, and it is not visible in the photos that she provided. Otherwise, the lens is in good condition. The mechanics are pretty smooth, aside from some dirt.

However, I don't know exactly what purpose that ring serves. Is it a simple fix, or does it indicate some deeper problem? What would the cost of repairing it during a CLA be?

Also, I'm not sure how best to go about dealing with the seller. She has been completely useless so far in our transaction. A week after winning with no word from her and no response to my emails, I had to get her phone number from ebay and call her for an invoice. Since then, she's ignored about 5 of my emails asking if she received my money and sent the lens. Thus, I'm leery of having to deal with her for more.

Is it fair to ask for a partial refund to absorb some of the cost of a CLA? Is it a good enough deal to keep it even if I can't get a partial refund? Does the floating ring represent some problem big enough that I should just get rid of the thing?

Thanks for any possible insights

 

[thetooth]

i believe that is like a gasket . i recently dismantled my summaron ( removed the rear element to clean some haze ) and there was a small thin gasket like that . it presses against the aperture . you should be able to remove either element and replace the gasket . lenses are not very complex they just unscrew i have taken apart and cleaned quite a few you made need a spanner wrench though.

i would not press the issue much with the seller you got a good deal on the lens and she doesn't sound very responsive also by looking at her photos closely you can see the gasket floating in front of the aperture .

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Martain, I think you got a good price, though not exactly a good deal. Not bad, considering that one of those in better shape runs for about $400 in a store.

I'd send the lens to Sherry Krauter or Gary Kindermann, whichever you prefer (I see you are in Canada) for a cleaning. The rates for lenses are not terribly high, and you'll get it back in tiptop shape and fairly quickly. Take care!

 

[colyn]

This lens in all probability has been tampered with. The ring is a critical spacer and if not properly replaced will cause issues. No telling what might be missing.

I would return it simply because the cost of repair would increase the overall purchase price..

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Right as I clicked on "Post Quick Reply" that notion crossed my mind, Colyn. A CLR would cost just as much as Martain paid for the lens.

There you go... another vote for returning it! 🙂

 

[Tom A]

That looks like a lens element retaining ring. The next question is -where is the element that it is supposed to retain? Shoot a roll with it and see if it focusses properly. Looking at the front element it also looks like it has some haze in it. IF the element is still inside the barrel - a CLA could fix it as the lens would have to be dis-mantled anyway for servicing it. Check with the seller as to who is supposed to pay for what. If it was really cheap - it might be worth it to bite the bullet and have it done on your own nickel.

 

[Bassism]

Thanks everyone,
That's what I had been wondering. If it were something simple, then I would simply send it out for a CLA. But I know from my own experiences pulling lenses apart in the past that things are rarely that simple. Looking at the lens closer, I've noticed that the ring has actually broken up into a number of pieces that are bouncing around freely. If it's simply a matter of replacing a ring, then great. If, however, it's more serious than that, the worth of the lens drops quickly in my eyes.

I guess I'll have to file a claim with ebay and see where things go from there. There is absolutely no mention of the damage in the listing and it's not visible in the photos. The mark in the one photo that looks like it might be the ring is just a reflection. The ring is on the other side of the aperture, so it couldn't be seen in that photo. I should definitely be able to get some money out of it.

I'll send an email out to some repair people while I'm at it to see what they have to say.

The main reason I'm so worried about this is because a CLA would probably push the cost of the lens beyond my budget. Though I suppose I could always get it done then resell it as a newly CLAd lens if it comes to that.

I also have to chase after Canada customs. She declared it as camera parts rather than a lens so I got hit with 30 dollars in duty fees. :bang:

 

[35mmdelux]

Return it. This is a damaged lens and no mention of true cond was made; as such, it is an unfair, possibly deceptive, trade. A cla is more like $125 easily, assuming the element is not missing. This is not what you bargained for. Instead of $200 (C) this will end up around $400.

The lady sells trinkets; lots of them. She may not be aware of the lens true condition.

 

[CK Dexter Haven]

Document everything and file a claim with PayPal, not Ebay - assuming you used PayPal. Ebay doesn't really deal with that sort of thing. PayPal, however, has been very good in each of the three situations where i received items that were not as described. Don't let her off the hook simply because she's not easy to communicate with. Being rude and/or unresponsive shouldn't be rewarded.

The other option is to send it to someone like Sherry or Kindermann or whoever, for an ESTIMATE. With that information, you can decide if it's worth it to repair it versus return it and find another lens. Don't assume you know what it will take to make the lens work properly. There may be other, unseen, issues. I recently bought a cheap, old SLR. At first glance, i thought i only needed to replace the foam seals. But, when the repair shop received the body, they found the shutter also needed to be replaced. The cost of the repair would have been three times the cost of the camera....

 

[thomasw_]

I'd return it but be sure to demand it be signed upon receipt. File a PayPal dispute -- a not as advertised dispute -- immediately! You will get your money back eventually.

 

[35mmdelux]

Sherry charges $125 for full cla. She did one for me recently.

If the retaining ring is broken or element missing, then you are looking a major repair cost --making the simple cla look like peanuts. Bail out while you can.

 

[Florian1234]

I hope it is okay to ask this in here: There's a Summicron-M 35 in an onlineshop that has a "nice" price, but it has a scratch near the middle of the rear element lens.
What are the consequences of scratches on the rear element?

 

[laptoprob]

I hope it is okay to ask this in here: There's a Summicron-M 35 in an onlineshop that has a "nice" price, but it has a scratch near the middle of the rear element lens.
What are the consequences of scratches on the rear element?

This is called hijacking a thread but okay: damage to a rear element almost certainly shows up in pictures.

 

[Erik L]

i will buy it from you to repair my dual range if you want.

 

[Ahmed Poltroon]

You could easily sell it as-is for $200 or more and make a profit on it.

As for the "advice" about PayPal, you have been given an enormous amount of misinformation in almost every reply.

Sell it for parts and be done with it. The woman who sold it has no idea of what she's selling, and you're not talking high finance. Dump it and make a few bucks.

 

[MCTuomey]

this isn't a $2000 lens. imho, the OP was rolling the dice on a beater. spending all that time running down the eBay seller whom you knew wasn't likely a reliable assessor of the lens is a waste. decide whether you want to sell it as-is or have it fixed. move on, i say.

 

[Bassism]

I have filed a dispute with Paypal, giving the seller the option of either giving a partial refund or taking the thing back. I almost expect she won't even reply, but I'll give her a few days before I escalate it to a full claim.

While it's true that the lens isn't a particularly pricey one and I was rolling the dice on an old lens on ebay, there's no way that I'm going to just let this slide. Firstly, I'm a university student and the cost of the lens represents a few weeks worth of food to me. I can't afford to simply take the hit and try again, since I had sold some gear to get the money for this one in the first place.

Secondly, I think it's a matter of principle. I'm already quite dissatisfied by the fact that the seller has ignored every email I've ever sent to her. I like to choose my battles on ebay and chose a "power seller" to avoid problems like that. And I really don't think it takes a photographer or camera technician to look into a lens, see curved black lines floating around and realize there's something wrong that should be declared to a buyer. I was prepared to receive a lens with some haze and scratches on the elements, but a lens in "very good" condition should not have significant internal damage.

If I end up keeping it, I'll figure out what to do with it. It's on my camera now. If I'm lucky it'll still work alright or maybe it'll give a neat soft focus effect. Otherwise there's always the option of selling it for parts or as a repaired lens. But that's not the point. I'm not going to take the loss from a deadbeat dishonest seller.

 

[newsgrunt]

I'd contact a Leica tech and see if they can give you a rough idea of the repair needed. Curiosity and all and possibly useful information in the dispute.

 

[Ahmed Poltroon]

You're making the mistake of taking a small transaction personally. You come off as spoiled and self-righteous.

The woman has no idea how to evaluate an old lens. You actually came out way ahead by getting a lens in good cosmetic condition, with excellent glass, for a fraction of the going rate.

1) You haven't tried the lens yet.

2) You're cutting off your nose to spite your face. You want to return something to get your money back, and lose a large potential profit you could get for selling it "as is" to someone else?

3) Big deal, the seller doesn't reply as fast as you like. So you essentially now want to get the lens for nothing by forcing her into a large "partial refund". I don't buy the "partial refund" game. Either send it back or keep it.

Why is it a "deadbeat seller"? You think everyone is deliberately cheating you? The seller usually deals in cheap knick-knacks and doesn't know anything about lenses.

You got a steal, and now you're crying. Be a man.

* Go to "advanced search". Look up the seller's contact info and phone number. Call her. Use Skype if the 20 cent phone call bothers you. Talk to the seller.

 

[januaryman]

I have filed a dispute with Paypal, giving the seller the option of either giving a partial refund or taking the thing back. I almost expect she won't even reply, but I'll give her a few days before I escalate it to a full claim.

Secondly, I think it's a matter of principle. I'm already quite dissatisfied by the fact that the seller has ignored every email I've ever sent to her. I like to choose my battles on ebay and chose a "power seller" to avoid problems like that. And I really don't think it takes a photographer or camera technician to look into a lens, see curved black lines floating around and realize there's something wrong that should be declared to a buyer. I was prepared to receive a lens with some haze and scratches on the elements, but a lens in "very good" condition should not have significant internal damage.

I'll bet that you, like me are more irked at getting "skunked" and that your 2nd reason is really the primary reason. I did a similar thing a few years back and can tell you that for your own mental health, skip the damage to your peace of mind and find a way to resolve it amicably. I actually had the seller warn me that he "knows where I live." I ended up calling my ISP, his ISP, my local police, his local police, Paypal, E Bay, and probably everyone outside of the FBI. I got my money back through channels eventually, but would NEVER repeat my actions or decisions.

Then again, if you are a student, you are young, and perhaps you're even looking forward to some adeneline rushes, which I'm afraid will surely be headed your way. You even had an offer from a member here who would buy it from you! What could be easier?

Your call. Just wanted to share my own miserable tale. Best of luck with this, though!