Reluctantly - Leica MM Missed Opportunities?

[135format]

Hi Amy
I hope you're well, long time no talk.
Personally, I think Leica have been very sensible to stick to the DNG format, and to inflict yet another piece if software on us would have been a real crime.

Added to which, you can do quite a lot in camera to effect the contrast/sharpness/saruration of the resulting jpgs. Which, of course, don't suffer the normal indignities of jpg output in that they haven't been mangled by an inefficient in camera demosaicing process. but I'm not sure that this has even been mentioned.

RAW files with a big dynamic range inevitably look flat out of the camera, but two minutes work in LR can really change that. Silve Efex pro is an added bonus. The cost of developing and testing software specifically for this camera, which would be anything like as capable, would be out of the question.

Adobe and Leica have developed a slightly modified DNG standard to accommodate RAW files with no mosaicing, so that the camera can be used with state of the art software. Added to this there is a lot of flexibility with in camera jpg files.

More than this seems like a lot to ask!

All the best

At those prices I expect a lot. Infact I expect the best there is. But you seem to be suggesting that monchrom can't deliver that.

 

[jonoslack]

At those prices I expect a lot. Infact I expect the best there is. But you seem to be suggesting that monchrom can't deliver that.

Absolutely not. What I'm saying is that (like it or not) Lightroom and silver Efex pro are the pinnacle of current RAWprocessing software the best there is.. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel Leica have made a big effort to levage the advantages of this software, and gone to the length of supplying licenses with the camera. So that, at these prices, you are getting the best there is.

No more waiting for months for Adobe to support proprietary RAW files and no worries about future compatability.

 

[DRabbit]

Hi Amy
I hope you're well, long time no talk.
Personally, I think Leica have been very sensible to stick to the DNG format, and to inflict yet another piece if software on us would have been a real crime.

Hi Jono 🙂
Sorry it took me a while to come back to this thread, but I did want to answer you.

I wasn't necessarily saying they should alter the DNG file itself (or not provide it). It's one thing I love about Leica, their raw files.

However, I do wonder (if only to myself) if there was more opportunity to go further with it. As I mentioned before, in a simllar way to picking your film stock (art-filter JPGs, alternative RAW file, tone curve response adjustments, "film presets" per-se, etc.). A couple of camera companies have done it successfully (in my opinion), such as Fuji and Olympus.

Added to which, you can do quite a lot in camera to effect the contrast/sharpness/saruration of the resulting jpgs. Which, of course, don't suffer the normal indignities of jpg output in that they haven't been mangled by an inefficient in camera demosaicing process. but I'm not sure that this has even been mentioned.

That is good information to know...
However, does it not make the point further about providing some unique in-camera options for output -- ones that relate very much back to B&W film.

I likely wouldn't have even though much about it, except for the fact they are including SEP2 with the camera. Simulating film stocks, grains, contrast curve and all that... it's a very digital way to think. I know when I shoot film, I start by choosing the stock I want for it's particular look. I wouldn't always shoot with the same stock for the same output. I guess I just wonder if there could have been more options to account for that type of thinking... other than by including SEP2.

RAW files with a big dynamic range inevitably look flat out of the camera, but two minutes work in LR can really change that. Silve Efex pro is an added bonus. The cost of developing and testing software specifically for this camera, which would be anything like as capable, would be out of the question.

Within Leica's resources, you may be right. However, I still have to wonder if that means this isn't the ultimate innovation it could have been.

Maybe it is purely the RAW-man's machine, and there's nothing wrong with that I suppose. However, it doesn't jive well in my mind for Leica to want to "get back to it's roots" (as insinuation by some reviewers out there) by making a B&W only camera and then to somehow miss a few things about the film world I'd consider important.

Adobe and Leica have developed a slightly modified DNG standard to accommodate RAW files with no mosaicing, so that the camera can be used with state of the art software. Added to this there is a lot of flexibility with in camera jpg files.

Specifically aimed at B&W; or standard, what-you-see-in-every-camera, JPGS options?

More than this seems like a lot to ask!

Not sure if I agree or not (seriously -- I've had a lot of mixed feelings about the MM -- LOL!)...

And let me say THANKS to you Jono... for testing the camera out and sharing your files with all of us (and putting up with the many opinions about them out there!). Thanks for lending it to SH for a little while too, so he could give his thoughts. It's all very interesting to see the photos and hear what other photographers think about it. It's likely as close as I'll get to one LOL!

 

[jonoslack]

Hi Amy
It's bedtime! But a couple of points
1. I camera processing is always going to be less efficient than computer based
2. Leica have always been against cascades of in camera options

I would think they feel that anyone who is going to pay this much for a camera needs no hand holding with their processing.

Of course, I don't actually know what they think, but I do know that you can make anything you want with these files, just that you can't do it by magic!

All the best

 

[albygentle]

Leica currently really makes nothing for her, and talented kids like her -- kids interested in simple, beautiful, high-quality rangefinder cameras for more reasons than just to be a hipster -- may well never get introduced to a Leica of their own.

Currently and never will Leica make anything for kids. Sounds more hipster for her to crave Leica than make due with a Fuji, Olympus or the other million options other average photo students use.

Eventually, if she is good, she will be able to afford one..and make it more rewarding.

As for Leica prices, it is not surprising at all. Let them be, and buy whatever you can afford. Do your best with it and move on...ive never seen so many rants over new equipment from people that cannot afford it..this is not aimed at the OP, but in general.

The ones who can afford it probably pay it off with their work..should be motivating for everyone else who wants them.

 

[downstairs]

Just another body

Just another body

Missed opportunity: A 'cheaper' stripped-down utility monochrome M9 - just another body. The user base is married to Leitz lenses anyway.
A histogram might be nice, but no screen (the subject's gone while you look at the screen), no replay, no funny menu items.
A working body, in tune with working rangefinder practice.

 

[---f]

anybody try the M9M with yellow or red filters on them?? Do filters work as expected?

 

[Teuthida]

These comments always are interesting to read. Leica would not be issuing these kinds of products if people were not buying them.

As PT Barnum said....