Replacing a M2 finder with the MA finder

[Rich1950]

Has anyone customized their M2 with a MA finder. If so what are your thoughts on brightness/clarity.

Im interested in finder clarity vs frame lines. The M2 finder is in good shape but older finders are darker and less crisp.

I have a hunch replacing the finder will not completely bring the M2 up to a MP or MA brightness/crispness level.

There may be other aspects effecting clarity such as a coated eyepiece or perhaps some other aspect.

 

[panatomic]

Can you even get the M-A viewfinder/rangefinder assembly? Leica NJ doesn’t sell them.

My MP finder is the same brightness as my M4-2, but has a warm color cast. The M4-2 is more neutral. I don’t know about the M2.

 

[Rob-F]

Has anyone customized their M2 with a MA finder. If so what are your thoughts on brightness/clarity.

Im interested in finder clarity vs frame lines. The M2 finder is in good shape but older finders are darker and less crisp.

I have a hunch replacing the finder will not completely bring the M2 up to a MP or MA brightness/crispness level.

There may be other aspects siding clarity such as a coated eyepiece or perhaps some other aspect.

It may not be easy nor even possible to get an MA finder. Leica doesn't sell finders separately, not even (I believe) to private techs like DAG or Sherry K. I would start with a CLA (cleaning, Lubrication and Adjustment).

 

[Rich1950]

DAG has emailed the MA finder is available for $450. In addition you have to buy the frame-lines.

 

[Rich1950]

I’m wanting to reduce down to one M, I have a M3 and M5. My M2 body the most elegant and like new but has the least crisp finder of the 3 bodies.

Another option which keeps the more accurate frame lines is a M4 parts camera finder swap.

A concern is my M2 1960 eyepiece May be a double and if haze is between the two glasses forming the eyepiece the finder exchange will not result in a dramatic change in crispness.

 

[Duofold RF]

The MA finder is essentially the same as the MP’s and is derived from the M2‑type rangefinder. The MA’s RF may have slightly improved coatings, giving a marginally crisper view. That said, I personally wouldn’t spend the extra money for such a subtle gain in finder clarity

 

[maddoc]

I would sell the M2, M3, and M5 and get a used MA. Less hassle, newer camera body with newer mechanics.

 

[38Deardorff]

I would sell the M2, M3, and M5 and get a used MA. Less hassle, newer camera body with newer mechanics.

I'd get DAG to fix the M2, sell the others & carry on!

 

[splitimageview]

What specifically is wrong with the M2 viewfinder? Just want it to be brighter/clearer/cleaner? Framelines all solid as well as the RF patch?

How good the viewfinders are after 60+ years depends on how well the cameras were cared for (or not.)

Coated viewfinder glass can be added to an M2 but this really has no affect if the viewfinder is already excellent, it should only be done if the front glass is flawed in some way.

I just acquired two M2s with fabulously clean, clear, bright viewfinders (for very reasonable money I might add, 6 month warranty from dealers.) One is a 1961 model, the other 1962. As good as any new Leica.

DAG has cleaned many cameras for me, and the viewfinders came back looking amazing. I'd send him the M2 for him to evaluate.

 

[WJJ3]

FWIW, I had Don put an MP finder in my M4, and he did a great job. If I remember correctly, he had to machine some material off to get it to fit.

 

[Rich1950]

Why do this? Why not sell and buy a MA? I owned a MP for 18 years and wanted a M body with the classic script, beautiful chrome, and more accurate frame-lines. I sold the MP and replaced it with a cost effective M5. I should of stoped there. But I always wanted to a M2 and after a MI and unexpected favorable tax return bought a mint M2. Even the back eyepiece had no wipe marks. The camera had a L seal and I sent it to Youxin Ye for a CLA hoping the finder would improve. It did not.

It would be a crap shoot to hand the M2 to Don Goldberg and expect him to do more than Mr. Ye did. Best I can determine there is a lot of variability on finders. My M5 the best, then a 1962 M3. For me the view through the finder is part of the pleasure of using a M camera.

I will compare my 1960 M2 with another. It may be a 1965 body has less tint and not the double eyepiece (if that is even an issue) like the older M3s. Perhaps my prism has a bit of tarnish.

I think the MA conversion is gong far. I huge wide brim hat is more cost effective to shade the finder.

 

[Beemermark]

FWIW, I had Don put an MP finder in my M4, and he did a great job. If I remember correctly, he had to machine some material off to get it to fit.

I have both the M4 and the MP cameras (and an M7) and am super curious why you would do this.

 

[splitimageview]

As I stated earlier, these cameras are several decades old, and the viewfinders vary in clarity, frame line solidity, and rangefinder patch contrast, depending on what kind of life the cameras have experienced.

The statement that ‘older finders are darker and less crisp’ isn’t accurate, there are plenty of well-cared-for M2s with viewfinders there are like new…

There are no M2 models with two part eyepieces, that only applies to early M3.

Confused by this statement:

I have a hunch replacing the finder will not completely bring the M2 up to a MP or MA brightness/crispness level.

Replacing the viewfinder with a MP or MA viewfinder most certainly will result in whatever clarity is present in the replacement MP or MA finder.

Is DAG’s MA finder new or has it been pulled from a donor camera?

 

[38Deardorff]

Why do this? Why not sell and buy a MA? I owned a MP for 18 years and wanted a M body with the classic script, beautiful chrome, and more accurate frame-lines. I sold the MP and replaced it with a cost effective M5. I should of stoped there. But I always wanted to a M2 and after a MI and unexpected favorable tax return bought a mint M2. Even the back eyepiece had no wipe marks. The camera had a L seal and I sent it to Youxin Ye for a CLA hoping the finder would improve. It did not.

It would be a crap shoot to hand the M2 to Don Goldberg and expect him to do more than Mr. Ye did. Best I can determine there is a lot of variability on finders. My M5 the best, then a 1962 M3. For me the view through the finder is part of the pleasure of using a M camera.

I will compare my 1960 M2 with another. It may be a 1965 body has less tint and not the double eyepiece (if that is even an issue) like the older M3s. Perhaps my prism has a bit of tarnish.

I think the MA conversion is gong far. I huge wide brim hat is more cost effective to shade the finder.

"It would be a crap shoot to hand the M2 to Don Goldberg and expect him to do more than Mr. Ye did." ......
Don has far more expertise & parts.... Did you ask Y if he did anything to clean the finder?

 

[splitimageview]

I wouldn't send the M2 to DAG for cleaning, I'd send it for him to evaluate and get his opinion if it could be improved.

But first I'd really like to know a full description of the condition of this M2 viewfinder. Is it noticeably darker in regular usage? Or is just annoying knowing that there are other cameras that have brighter viewfinders? Is the difference to other cameras only apparent when doing a direct side-by-side comparison with another camera, otherwise not noticeable?

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Has anyone customized their M2 with a MA finder. If so what are your thoughts on brightness/clarity.

Im interested in finder clarity vs frame lines. The M2 finder is in good shape but older finders are darker and less crisp.

I have a hunch replacing the finder will not completely bring the M2 up to a MP or MA brightness/crispness level.

There may be other aspects effecting clarity such as a coated eyepiece or perhaps some other aspect.

If you refer to the eyepiece, the MA/M2 glass itself is (I believe) identical. The eyepieces are not interchangeable.

But with regards to the RF, if that’s what you mean, the only visual difference would be due to the coated windows on the MA (a slight blue tint) vs. non-coated windows of the M2 (so you'd have to replace the windows - not the RF). A MA/M4-P frameline mask (with all 6 framelines) can be installed in the M2 - if that's what you want - without replacing the entire RF.

If the RF is dim, then have it cleaned (or maybe it's time for a CLA). If there is balsam separation, that can be repaired as well.

 

[splitimageview]

I install coated windows as part of restoration, but it's only necessary if there is a flaw with the front window glass; broken, scratched, fungused, etc. A good condition original uncoated glass window will look the same to the eye, compared to new coated glass. The human eye can't tell the difference.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

Why do this? Why not sell and buy a MA? I owned a MP for 18 years and wanted a M body with the classic script, beautiful chrome, and more accurate frame-lines. I sold the MP and replaced it with a cost effective M5. I should of stoped there. But I always wanted to a M2 and after a MI and unexpected favorable tax return bought a mint M2. Even the back eyepiece had no wipe marks. The camera had a L seal and I sent it to Youxin Ye for a CLA hoping the finder would improve. It did not.

It would be a crap shoot to hand the M2 to Don Goldberg and expect him to do more than Mr. Ye did. Best I can determine there is a lot of variability on finders. ...

I've never experienced any variability in finders without some issue/damage present.

It sounds to me like you may have some balsam separation. That will cause the finder (in the RF patch) to appear somewhat dim. I don't think YYe will touch that; and besides, DAG is the only one I would trust to fix it anyway as it involves a delicate procedure of separating the prism and preserving the silver coating.

 

[splitimageview]

YYE can do the re-cement but first we need a thorough description of what @Rich1950 is seeing exactly.

 

[WJJ3]

I have both the M4 and the MP cameras (and an M7) and am super curious why you would do this.

Because I wanted a 0.58x finder in my M4. The M4 finder went to good use though. I had Don install it in my M1.