Respect for people.

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MC JC86 said:
Dave,

I don't know how it was "out of line". As for "re-reading" your post, I'm very sorry but I was actually responding to stuff on the first 2 pages of the thread and nothing that you said (I only now read your post for the first time and don't disagree with anything you said) In fact your last sentence just now seems in line with what I said.


EDIT: and I don't see anything about high level "photographic rights" or what have you in my little response. I guess just a miscommunication, just want you to know I wasn't engaging or attacking your post(s)
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I apologize. Power reading gets me in trouble sometimes. Gotta quit coming on the forum in between violent episodes of nausea and regurgitation that I have to tend to from time to time.:eek:
 
dave lackey said:
I apologize. Power reading gets me in trouble sometimes. Gotta quit coming on the forum in between violent episodes of nausea and regurgitation that I have to tend to from time to time.:eek:
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No apology necessary. I just didn't want you to think I was TRYING to be a jerk. (my friends and family tell me it just comes naturally).
 
My girlfriend refuses to be with me when I have a camera, because she feels so uncomfortable with what I do. She thinks she'd be really pi$$ed if someone did it to her (take her picture that is - gotta try to avoid innuendo here).

However, like most, she'll very much enjoy the result. When I ask her how she can enjoy the results of something she regards as a total insult (the taking of the photo) she can't answer. Maybe we should be looking at this from the other side? People enjoy great photographs, but don't like the process involved in making them.

Same with burgers I guess.
 
_larky said:
If Gilden took my photo, I'd be very happy. If I ever spot him, I'll try to look like a character. :)
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Okay. Counterbalance, mental image.

If you see him, run up to him, get in front, hop up and down screaming "Me, Me, Take my Picture!!!!!" and don't quit until he obliges and you are satisfied with the results.
 
_larky said:
My girlfriend refuses to be with me when I have a camera, because she feels so uncomfortable with what I do. She thinks she'd be really pi$$ed if someone did it to her (take her picture that is - gotta try to avoid innuendo here).

However, like most, she'll very much enjoy the result. When I ask her how she can enjoy the results of something she regards as a total insult (the taking of the photo) she can't answer. Maybe we should be looking at this from the other side? People enjoy great photographs, but don't like the process involved in making them.

Same with burgers I guess.
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Right on. Some people like "out of sight, out of mind", others just have a very negative or very "permissive" (I say that instead of "positive"; too many people mistake "positive" with "not minding") mind --through some pretty hard-wired logic.

Most of the people who love hamburgers would hate to see a video of the process at a slaughterhouse...and the kitchen. Yet love the burger.

On that shaky metaphor, I'd say that some would condemn even the cleanest, healthiest kitchen, just because they absolutely believe that all kitchens are dirty; regardless of where the meat came from. Now, that to me is a case of hard-core astigmatism.
 
MC JC86 said:
People are photographed and recorded on video almost everywhere they go. If one has the perception that the moment some amateur photographer captures them on film while in public violates their privacy their priorities are somewhat out of line. If they think, as at least one person has suggested, that resorting to violence because they have been photographed in public makes sense then again, their priorities are somewhat out of line.
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We live in an environment which disrespects our humanity at every turn, and moreover makes it very dangerous to fight back. You will know what I mean if you ever find yourself saying a harsh word in public to anyone perceived as an authority figure.

So, when you take someone's photo and they feel it's an intrusion, you become someone they can safely take out their pent-up hostility and frustration on. It's a reflection of our dangerously messed-up society.

Randy

P.S. I am talking about taking candid photos of people in public places, which I think is completely acceptable, not paparazzi-style aggression. Ironically, I think the latter is completely defensible in court if you are pursuing a "public figure"!
 


Widelux F7







Nikkor 24 2.0 on Nikon F2AS




Nikkor 16 mm 2.0 on F2AS



Nikkor 24 2.0 on F2AS



Nikkor 85 2.0 on F2AS








Nikkor 135 2.0 AIS on F2AS





Nikkor 24 2.8 AIS on FM2

One of my first street shots.





Nikkor 400 2.8 AIS on Nikon D3



Nikkor 24 2.8 AIS on FM2 Vivitar flash

Drunk teenager at the CTrain

I admit to using discussions like these to help fuel my fire for street photography. While I respect the right of others to shoot or not shoot whatever they want, I feel that there are important images that need to be taken, and shared.

I am clearly out of step with being politically correct because I don't give a damn what other people think when I am street shooting. It's of no consequence to me.

Who are they to tell me what are the right sort of photos to take?
There not paying my bills, my camera, my film, processing. Not to mention the huge amount of time that I spend pounding the streets with my feet in the pursuit of street photography.

In truth, I know that I am a little hardened, but I couldn't care less what people think about me.
I never really have.

Street photography is an art form and no one, I repeat no one, tells me how to do my art. I decide that for myself.

From decades of photographing candids on the street, I can tell you that there is always someone who thinks they know better than me what is, or isn't, a good photo. If I had $10 for every time I have been told "not to take pictures" of that, I'd be rich. I shoot what I want in the manner I see fit.

So to those who want to show the world as it is in their mind's eye and not just take another pretty picture, I say just get on with it and keep going.

I am out.



"It's an illusion"

Nikkor 28 1.4 AF-D on Nikon D3

"Rights are taken, never given"
 
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You're the guy I've been trying to find! Love your shots. Wanted to ask you about how you shoot etc. You ever been interviewed?
 
Dave, I've got a pal in Texas who likes to say, "It ain't bragging if you can do it" :).

Look, I respect people and the interaction with my fellow human beings as I go about doing what I do and that keeps me going. I just fail to see how taking their picture is sign of disrespect.

Sell it to me. Because so far, I'm not buying what you're laying down.











Nikkor 28 1.4 AF-D on Nikon D3



Nikkor 8 mm 2.8 AIS on Nikon D3

















Nikkor 300 2.0 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3







Nikkor 28 1.4 AF-D



Nikkor 58 1.2 Nocturnal on Nikon D3




Nikkor 16 2.8 AIS on Nikon D3
 
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The more I think and read about this topic the more I want to throw up. It is going to p.c. for me.

You can not be responsible for other people in public. As much as it would be horrible to set someone off on a panic attack or heart attack, whatever... You are not responsible for them. If you knew ahead of time you could try and be mindful but a world of over carefulness and "respect" for people's insecurities promoting total disrespect for you is one I want to ******* blow up into pieces.

I disagree with physically manipulating people for photographs, directly. If someone asked me not to photograph them and they hence force ruined the picture why would I take it then? Well I might if they were intolerably rude. I would also take the photograph if I just really wanted to have it. If they want to disagree they have the right to voice their opinion. The difference between them being able to infiltrate my mind with their filth while talking is just as offensible to me as having a photo taken of you in a public place, that you did not wish to be taken. They are both part of being in this gang we call humans, and the continuation of it requires the tolerance of the members between each other.

In general the over-the-top "niceness" is becoming censorship not of just slanderous behavior but of confrontational constructive criticism and actions. Complacency is a form of control. Further more it is really damn boring and only suites some people that prefer simplicity in all aspects of life. That notion is insulting to the complications of the world, particularly were people are less fortunate than to reap the rewards of a false believe in abundance prosperity not off the backs of other people.

I want nothing to do with the promotion of this censorship.
 
Cute Puppy Picture!

Anyone that can take a picture of a cute, cuddly puppy disqualifies themself from the arrogance club.

Sorry, your out....
 
Field said:
The more I think and read about this topic the more I want to throw up. It is going to p.c. for me.

You can not be responsible for other people in public. As much as it would be horrible to set someone off on a panic attack or heart attack, whatever... You are not responsible for them. If you knew ahead of time you could try and be mindful but a world of over carefulness and "respect" for people's insecurities promoting total disrespect for you is one I want to ******* blow up into pieces.

I disagree with physically manipulating people for photographs, directly. If someone asked me not to photograph them and they hence force ruined the picture why would I take it then? Well I might if they were intolerably rude. I would also take the photograph if I just really wanted to have it. If they want to disagree they have the right to voice their opinion. The difference between them being able to infiltrate my mind with their filth while talking is just as offensible to me as having a photo taken of you in a public place, that you did not wish to be taken. They are both part of being in this gang we call humans, and the continuation of it requires the tolerance of the members between each other.

In general the over-the-top "niceness" is becoming censorship not of just slanderous behavior but of confrontational constructive criticism and actions. Complacency is a form of control. Further more it is really damn boring and only suites some people that prefer simplicity in all aspects of life. That notion is insulting to the complications of the world, particularly were people are less fortunate than to reap the rewards of a false believe in abundance prosperity not off the backs of other people.

I want nothing to do with the promotion of this censorship.
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Yes, you can be responsible for other people in public. Don't be rude to people.

As far as censorship, anyone can do what ever they want, but consequences will happen. Not censorship, just a fact. Over the top niceness? Hardly.

Anyone coming onto this forum saying screw everybody and they will do what ever the hell they want to.... that qualifies as arrogance. That is the kind of person that is looking for trouble at some point whether in traffic, in business, or in a marriage. Life is full of compromises and behavior is molded by them.

We, as photographers, have a choice everyday to behave with respect towards others or not. I hope most on this forum would choose to respect other people instead of chasing their own legend in their minds.

Don't bother to respond. I just unsubscribed to this thread. Not worth my time and effort.
 
Bob Michaels said:
Let us always be careful not to evaluate others well being by our own set of standards. Everyone else in the world does not march to our drummer.

I once had a street person tell me how sorry he felt for me having to worry about my retirement funds, homeowners taxes and insurance, job pressures, family dealings, social pressures and on and on. He said "been there, done that, no thank you."
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YO Bob, Bob Dylan put it very simply" If ya ain't got nothin', ya got nothin' to lose". A bit Spartan for my tastes but to each his own. Me I used to find it hard to approach others but practice and respect (live and let live) in large portions help. I also let them know "I'm only learning"Not much chance I'll ever have a book or sell a picture.I'm just not that good. If I were a bike rider, Lance Armstrong would never have to look over his shoulder for me to pass.
 
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I don't know why "doing" photography in the streets should be
considered especially different than playing a guitar or singing or dancing or doing any other activity.

Just handing out pamphlets in the street is more intrusive, but I don't hear anyone claiming that's disrespectful. Or how about preaching? Is talking to passersby disrespectful?

A photographer isn't "taking" anything away from anyone, nor is he or she impinging on anyone's ability to go about their business.

I think it's important that we all respect one another and allow everyone to go about their business and that includes photographers.

I don't think it would be respectful at all to yell at a photographer for taking a picture, whether it had you in the image or not.

To me that would be the height of arrogance, to think you hold some special privacy privileges in public.

And remember, if you hit anyone for pissing you off in a public place, it's aggravated assault, a criminal offense and just downright stupid.

The thing is, I love street photography, not because I'm particularly good at it, but because I love people in all their flavors and textures and I'm rather too shy to stare at them long enough to "see" if that makes any sense.... and I would really like to see street photography thrive well into the future. Amen. :)
 
I don't understand why anyone here is trying to force morals or the 'how-to' of their photography onto others. I think that is disrespectful.

Practice photography how you want, but don't ever assume that how you do it is ever any more 'right' than the next person.
 
Field, you make excellent points. There is no doubt that there is a political correctness attitude at play here. And I for one am glad to see it challenged.

Street photography is one of those areas still left in this world that is raw and unrestrained. That is what I love it. And even after more than 25 years of shooting, I still feel that the best pictures are yet to be taken.
There are no rules about what is right or wrong in a street photo.

And what I like the best about it is that no one is there telling me how, or what, or where to shoot. Well, they do but I just don't listen or pay them any mind.

The fact is, every photographer who goes out and does street photography has their own take on it. And that is fantastic. And the great thing about it is, anyone, and I mean anyone, can do it anywhere with minimal equipment.

My pal Keven is doing some incredible work with his iPhone. And I mean stunning work. And while I confess to being a total gear snob at this time in my life, it really doesn't matter one bit what you use.

What's interesting is that lately, I have noticed that people are very nervous and suspicious of any photos you take on the street.

Even ones like this.




I had a store owner come out and "demand" I tell him why I was shooting this garbage in the parking lot. I told him to mind his own business.

Trust me, while others might not consider this street photography, "to me" it is :).

The next day when I was shooting it again (I like to go back again and again for the good ones) in different light with a different camera, another store owner right beside him came over from the same building and she wants to buy a print.

Unlike her uptight neighbour with no artistic vision, she thinks I am brilliant.

My point is to stay true to your own photographic vision, it's best to disregard the general public's opinion about what you do and or how you do it.

While it's nice to have your work respected and desired, at the end of the day, what "they" think is simply not important. At least not to me.

One of the things I like to tell would-be street shooters is just shoot. Think about it later.




35 mm Summilux on Leica M9





12 mm ASPH on Leica M9



Nikkor 800 5.6 IF-ED AIS on Nikon D3
 
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Think I must have missed all the undertones in this thread, didn't realise there was so much squabbling back and forth about each other's methods and what I'd personally call less than respectful approaches to each other's approach on the street.

I'll delete my original post, not because it disagrees with anything else here (or so I think) but because I'd rather not have something that I wrote from the heart about my approach being tangled up with the mud flinging around it.
 
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