returned camera....Now what?

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uffda_x

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Mar 20, 2008
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I had a member on this forum purchase a camera from me, claimed the shutter didn't work. I offered for him to ship the camera back right from the start....never heard back from him until a month later! He decides the CLA cost would be to much and doesn't want to go ahead with the CLA he was planning. So not wanting to deal with issues I decided to accept the camera back. Just got the camera today. Shutter is working perfectly...BUT....two chunks of the vulcanite are off the camera (the vulcanite was in great shape when I sent the camera to him), The original manual is missing, the original warranty card/paper work is missing. This is a leica M4-2 "user" camera. I now have the camera, and I still have to issue a refund via paypal...but this camera is not in the same condition....Now What?
 
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Shouldn't have accepted the camera back after such a long delay from the buyer, in my opinion. As a buyer, you need to be quick on your feet if you want to return something that is not to your satisfaction... But what can you do now? It seems to me nothing, except perhaps writing this person and asking for the missing items and compensation for them and the chipped vulcanite.
 
Did you ask about the warranty card / manual ? As I understand, you have the camera now back, in worse condition than sent to the buyer and you have to think about the refund ?

I would ask about the missing parts and if the buyer can not provide these I would only partial refund him. Have in mind that the buyer also can claim a "item not as described" case with Paypal and they will withdraw the money from your credit-card account + handling fee if you can`t proove that the camera was fully functional when you had initially sent it to the buyer ... (Don`t ask me why I know this ... :bang:)
 
Then I would try to settle down an agreement between you and the buyer about what a fair refund would be.
 
i mean, the camera was not returned to you in the same condition it was sent to him in. tell him this and send the camera back to him regardless of what he says, keep the money. if he's stubborn and the camera comes back to you, i would probably ignore him but i'm suspecting that could lead to issues. regardless, he damaged the camera, stole certain items, and demands a refund? nevermind how long he took to send it back, he's in the wrong. and if he were to open a dispute with law enforcement, which i doubt will happen, i don't think you'd have much to worry about.
 
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I'm here only to remind sellers to take good, timestamped "before" pics prior to sending stuff out.
OK this is a reminder to me :)

I don't want to put a wrench in your troubles, but what happens if the buyer refuses the package if you resend it?
 
To make it even more of a hassle, this was an international transaction to Canada. We both are out $35 in shipping already! I would rather not deal with the shipping game. Just blows my mind that people try to do this stuff. You buy a used item...its yours...I'm not a big box retail store! I guess this is what I get for trying to be an honest individual. I have the money and the camera...guess the ball is in my court
 
I'd urge you to do what you'd like to do. i don't see you getting screwed in this situation. if the buyer refuses the package, so be it. maybe someone else here wants it, arrange another sale, and refund the original buyer his money minus the difference of cash between the first sale and the second sale? ie, you sell it a second time for 1 million but the buyer paid 2 million- refund the buyer only 1 million. then you can break even?
 
Obviously this is pure speculation but the way the covering/vulcanite is missing looks like the lens mount has been taken off resulting in the brittle covering/vulcanite breaking. I hope no one else suffers from dealing with this member! Have you managed to have any communication with him yet to hear his story and find out how this mess will be resolved?
 
it seems to be fall down with the lens on ......only for curiosity , if is possible , which is the ammount of the selling........
 
No word back....just received the camera today....so should hear back from him today at some point....I hope! I don't think the lens mount was removed. All the positions of the screws are turned in the same positions as they were in the original photo before it was sent.
 
uffda_x said:
I had a member on this forum purchase a camera from me, claimed the shutter didn't work. (...) Just got the camera today. Shutter is working perfectly...BUT....two chunks of the vulcanite are off the camera
Click to expand...

Sounds like the buyer was, well, as reliable as his ability to successfully cock and release the shutter.

I hate to say this but I think you got yourself into a pickle by having him send the camera back past the refund date. He took too long to respond, and his inaction was enough to just let him keep the camera and you the money. Now you can't keep the money, can't refund it, are missing things (and pieces), and will have to pay a percentage to send him the money back. That also to me is a huge red flag as some money laundering can be done this way.

At this point I'd say he bought the camera, it's not in the same shape as when you sent it, and it is functional as you stated and so very not like he stated. Send the camera back.

I'd contact PayPal first and see what you can/need to do before this gets any worse.
 
Ok I took another look at the pictures and you are right about the lens mount screws but the screw below the frameline selector lever is in a different position than before. What about the other screws, on the front of the camera, out of shot on the "after" photo?
 
The original buyer is sending the missing paperwork. He is willing to accept responsibility for the vulcanite. What would be a fair price for the vulcanite?
 
Wait until the missing paper work arrives before refunding any money.

The Vulcanite is difficult. How much would it cost to repair it?
It can be done by a good tech. There is a way to duplicate and patch the finish using a two part black epoxy.
 
Also, from the image I see, the seal looks different between the two pictures. It looks to me like he may have tried to open it up.

If it were me, I would offer the buyer a choice:

#1 - Either take the camera back (sure you are out $35 more for shipping--but it is done then) or

#2 - You will send the camera off to a good repair tech to check it out and ensure that it wasn't damaged internally by the buyer, then you will then have the camera recovered, and finally you will purchase, on ebay or elsewhere, all items he lost, and only then will you refund his purchase price minus the cost of all of the above.

I firmly believe that sellers should go out of their way to ensure that buyers are pleased with their purchases, but you did that by taking back after a month. His damaging the item an losing parts of it falls into a "if you break it you bought it" category. That's just nuts!
 
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