Moriturii
Well-known
You've been drinking quite heavily from that Leica cool-aid. You sounds like one of those punters that thinks that whatever Leica does is flawless and genius.
It's quite simple and clear cut. The M Monochrome has a 2009 CCD sensor with no bayern filter. They are re-branding an M9 to make more money, end of story.
leicashot
Well-known
Yet another person making a poor assumption. I am a fan of using rangefinder cameras and while I'm not bagging this camera, I'm not making poor assumptions based on figures off a website. I am a photographer and with that I prefer to experience these things myself before making bold comments.
The Monochrom is only the beginning and is a way Leica can clear old M9 stock, sure, but it doesn't mean its a bad product. Any company's first priority is profit, and Leica like any other don't care as much about making cameras to please you as much as they care about profit. Surprised?
Moriturii
Well-known
:bang::bang::bang:
raytoei@gmail.com
Veteran
this forum has many grumpy old men, mostly under 40s
leicashot
Well-known
So I guess you're just trolling then. Good work, nice to be reminded why I stopped coming to Leica orientated forums.
leicashot
Well-known
Absolutely. The grumpy old men over 40 know better that to waste their time being rudely argumentative....and they have more time to do so.
ChrisN
Striving
Just for anyone interested in some real world (well, not my real world, but ...) photos made with the MM, Seal has quite a few tour shots on his Flickr page.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sealsong/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sealsong/
leicashot
Well-known
Thanks Chris, though not sure you can see anything from black and white pictures on the internet. Only direct comparisons of files and 100% crops would suffice for actual clarification, but I appreciate the link.
BobYIL
Well-known
What could be said to a man who says having the D800E and does not believe in what he saw...
The first one is from Ming Thein's MM & Apo-Summicron, enlarged to 175cm then cropped:
The second one is from http://pcfoto.biz/na-prvi-pogled-nikon-d800e (#19, taken with a 70-200 zoom (!) on a D800E) again enlarged to 175cm, converted to B&W and cropped:
Do you see some differences? Do you still believe "Ming Thein would be the best reviewer/photographer on the internet."??
Mr. Thein's review is no justice to the actual resolution power of the MM, neither to that of the D800E. Does your D800E have the crappy resolution like in Mr. Thein's samples???
I too have a D800E and I see that even with the lowly 50/1.8G, my ordinary shots have more resolution than Mr. Thein's samples, be them from the MM or the D800E.
As I was repeatedly mentioning, let first the MMs reach to the hands of actual users as well as the established test sites so we can have an idea about the dynamic range, hi-ISO characteristics, resolution, etc., instead of listening to the internet myths. And one of the actual testers will be YOU, for you have a reference-class FF in your hand...
fstops
-
The reviewer lauds the removal of bayer filter in front of the sensor but then he puts one of those color filters in front of the very expensive lens and by extension the sensor.
How the four of them did not notice that bit of irony during this review is surprising.
How the four of them did not notice that bit of irony during this review is surprising.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The first few photos I looked at in Seal's flickr stream have some wickedly blown highlights. He's no dummy photographically so obviously the MM is tricky in this department and the camera does have it's own learning curve!
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Breathlessness and nostalgia don't go well together.
leicashot
Well-known
What could be said to a man who says having the D800E and does not believe in what he saw...
The first one is from Ming Thein's MM & Apo-Summicron, enlarged to 175cm then cropped:
The second one is from http://pcfoto.biz/na-prvi-pogled-nikon-d800e (#19, taken with a 70-200 zoom (!) on a D800E) again enlarged to 175cm, converted to B&W and cropped:
Do you see some differences? Do you still believe "Ming Thein would be the best reviewer/photographer on the internet."??
Mr. Thein's review is no justice to the actual resolution power of the MM, neither to that of the D800E. Does your D800E have the crappy resolution like in Mr. Thein's samples???
I too have a D800E and I see that even with the lowly 50/1.8G, my ordinary shots have more resolution than Mr. Thein's samples, be them from the MM or the D800E.
As I was repeatedly mentioning, let first the MMs reach to the hands of actual users as well as the established test sites so we can have an idea about the dynamic range, hi-ISO characteristics, resolution, etc., instead of listening to the internet myths. And one of the actual testers will be YOU, for you have a reference-class FF in your hand...
These are not direct comparisons. I never said the D800E wasn't as good as the MM and I couldn't care less if it does. You were talking about the dynamic range being two stops behind, but this does not address that issue, and I seriously doubt it's even worth discussing. But bagging the MM without using it or having direct comparisons is a waste of time. Ming Thein is not a technical tester. He is a photographer, like myself, so I give him credit where it's deserved, and don't criticise him for what he doesn't do and/or care about. Simply, I favour reviewers who actually know how to shoot, not review.
I intend to test the MM myself soon, and honestly have no intentions on sharing the results because the internet is becoming a very nasty place for negative activity, especially amongst the stereotypical crowd of snobby Leica or rangefinder users who use these forums to take out their daily frustration. DPReview is good for that.
From now on I refuse to get into any such discussions. Surely there are more positive things to do.
Turtle
Veteran
You might want to think through this bit of logic again 
I'll give you a clue: it is completely flawed on two levels.
I'll give you a clue: it is completely flawed on two levels.
dave lackey
Veteran
A voice of reason. Thanks for that as it is a wise person who understands that trying to change a mindset is insanity in itself.
The first problem with working with that mindset is the name Leica... too many bashers around.
The second problem is with comparing an excellent photographer's work (whether it be Ming Thein or Seal) with something else NOT done by the one doing the comparison is so scientifically f'ed up so as not to be worth discussing.
And there are so many other problems with discussing the M monochrome that to continue arguing is not wise in the least.
We are, after all, friends, right? Colleagues, right? Or have I missed something?
Forum cannibalism is to be avoided.I prefer to take photographs. One day I hope to have my own M monochrome and will take photographs. No need to continue discussions like this IMO.
Thorsten says it best, pick the camera you love and USE it!:angel:
ChrisC
Established
Ming gave his permission for you to use his copyrighted picture?
If not; will you please ensure the image is deleted from the thread.
.............. Chris
wafflecakee
Well-known
Well I hope a few of you liked the video. The three of us only got to shoot the camera for about 10 minutes each but it sure is fun to shoot.